Captive Breeding Program

<body topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0><tr> <td valign="top" colspan=2 height=100 BGCOLOR="#CCCCFF" TEXT="#080000" bgproperties="fixed" background="04000640egdysm.jpg"> <div> <FONT SIZE="5" COLOR="#000066" FACE="Arial" ><B>Avian Sources</B></FONT><B> </B></div> <bR> <div> </div> </td> </tr><tr> <td valign="top" width=200 BGCOLOR="#0000BF" TEXT="#F7F7FF"> <div> <TABLE BORDER="2" CELLPADDING="2" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="168" BORDERCOLORLIGHT="#C0C0C0" BORDERCOLORDARK="#808080" FRAME="BOX" RULES="ALL" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" > <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 28 WIDTH="156"><div> <A HREF="id24.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="APDParameters various Psittacines"><U><B><U>APD-Parameters various Psittacines</U></B></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> </TABLE></div> <div> <B> <TABLE BORDER="2" CELLPADDING="2" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="171" BORDERCOLORLIGHT="#C0C0C0" BORDERCOLORDARK="#808080" FRAME="BOX" RULES="ALL" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" > <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id51.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Poopology"><U><I><B><U>Poopology</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 ><NOBR><div> <A HREF="id32.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Captive Breeding Program"><U><I><B><U>Captive Breeding Program</U></B></I></U></A></div> </NOBR></tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id54.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="How Birds Breathe"><U><I><B><U>How Birds Breathe</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id2.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Our Birds"><U><I><B><U>Our Birds</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id59.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE=" Aviaries"><U><I><B><U> Aviaries</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id30.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Exotic Bird Eggs"><U><I><B><U>Exotic Bird Eggs</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id55.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Avian Gout"><U><I><B><U>Avian Gout</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 ><NOBR><div> <A HREF="id60.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Zinc and your Parrot"><U><I><B><U>Zinc and your Parrot</U></B></I></U></A></div> </NOBR></tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 27 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id64.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Cockatoo and Macaws together"><U><I><B><U>Cockatoo and Macaws together</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 ><NOBR><div> <A HREF="id74.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Pet Bird Owners Alert"><U><I><B><U>Pet Bird Owners Alert</U></B></I></U></A></div> </NOBR></tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id75.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Quarantine"><U><I><B><U>Quarantine</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 13 ><NOBR><div> <A HREF="id50.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Macaws Beak Surgery"><U><I><B><U>Macaw's Beak Surgery</U></B></I></U></A></div> </NOBR></tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 27 WIDTH="159"><div> <A HREF="id65.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="South Africa Grumbach Incubators"><U><I><B><U>South Africa Grumbach Incubators</U></B></I></U></A></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="159"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="1x1.gif" HEIGHT="16" ALIGN="bottom" WIDTH="159" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="159"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="1x1.gif" HEIGHT="16" ALIGN="bottom" WIDTH="159" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></tD> </tR> </TABLE></B></div> <bR> <div> "If it is your choice to toss our viable chicks to give your birds every chance to get it right, that is up to you. But I doubt that any of these parent birds will later be released into the wild, and so the value of the lessons can only be judged by the owner of the birds. "</div> <div> --</div> <div> Linda Seger</div> <bR> <bR> </td> <td valign="top" height=380 BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#080000"> <div> <I>Captive Breeding Program</I></div> <bR> <div> <TABLE BORDER="2" CELLPADDING="2" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="261" BORDERCOLORLIGHT="#C0C0C0" BORDERCOLORDARK="#808080" FRAME="BOX" RULES="ALL" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" > <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 73 ><NOBR><div> <U> <img src="HTMLobj-491/aniGif.gif" border="0" align="bottom" width="32" height="16">  </U></div> <div> <TABLE BORDER="2" CELLPADDING="2" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="176" BORDERCOLORLIGHT="#C0C0C0" BORDERCOLORDARK="#808080" FRAME="BOX" RULES="ALL" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" > <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 20 ><NOBR><div> <A HREF="id74.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Pet Bird Owners Alert"><U><B><U>Pet Bird Owners Alert</U></B></U></A></div> </NOBR></tD> </tR> </TABLE></div> <bR> </NOBR></tD> </tR> </TABLE></div> <bR> <bR> <div> I will say again, I'm most sensitive and very passionate about babies. </div> <div> Babies cannot speak for themselves in eggs or in hatchers. In brooders they </div> <div> may cry or bite or show signs of something not right, but not while they are </div> <div> under the care of a 'un attended next box or in the incubator or hatcher.</div> <bR> <div> ..Our birds are in cages, wings clipped, food brought to them of maybe not </div> <div> their choice...God forbid,   I have read more then I care to in how some regard the solution    " if they don't get it right, just toss them </div> <div> together out of your Aviary and/or allow babies to die."</div> <bR> <div> This is not a matter of right or wrong here it is a matter of many readers who read this 'permission' to allows babies to die either because the breeding birds don't get it right or because one cannot afford the right equipment.</div> <bR> <div> These Exotic Caged Birds depend on us, the Aviculturists, we are supposed to attend to them while they are in our Captive Bred Environment. If, we have a tax number and a business we are supposed to do everything in our power to justify that we are indeed doing everything to make a profit..if we are hobbyist, in our Captive Bred Aviaries we again should be doing everything to expand our knowledge and make available everything we need to accommodate our birds in our  captive breeding Aviaries.</div> <bR> <div> Our Captive Bred Birds are NOT in the wild...they don't do well in dirt nor </div> <div> hatch well on coffee pots or for that matter in my opinion belong on any </div> <div> heating pad in a deep wall of plastic call a 'fish aquarium.' Just think </div> <div> about this? Then we advertise our babies close to a grand and pull them out </div> <div> of the cheapest thing we can buy for them to develop them while in our care.</div> <bR> <div> We have manufactures who have made available to us updated equipment as </div> <div> incubators, hatchers and brooders for that 'high end dollar' babies or if we </div> <div> choose to place our less then expensive baby birds. Lyon Electric can verify </div> <div> my incubating and hatching out keets with feeding around the clock to end up </div> <div> 'giving' them away to good homes.</div> <div> I'll never sit by with messages as 'you may lose a couple of clutches of </div> <div> babies while they (the breeding birds)  get it right' as this just not need to be so. Or checking out a nest box with a stinking baby from death...</div> <bR> <div> I've been through the whole gamut from my birds Mollucans (scarlet macaws) to </div> <div> Hahns eating eggs to being the best baby caretakers.  I had to pull Scarlet </div> <div> eggs in order to get my first nine scarlet babies.  Reward my Mollucans with </div> <div> a corn on a cob to just get the egg from him.....Before my pulling I sat </div> <div> around listening to others 'that's OK...they'll get it right' I shudder to </div> <div> think how many eggs they ate...till my pulling the eggs for incubation and my hatching success.</div> <div> Only took one dead baby Umbrella in the nest box for me to avoid that </div> <div> again...just one and that happened because of advice given on the net that I </div> <div> listened while that baby hatched and died in the box.  Solution to some on the net was 'wait they'll get it right!'</div> <bR> <div> I heard the same words  with my Hyos...January 1993...I waited for my pair to 'get it right' to end up with dead babies in my nest box..This male today is 36 years of age and I finally have two of his babies that are a year old...and on the net  when I announced their hatching was told they are worthless because I incubated and hatched them out.  I pulled  the eggs immediately for there originally were three eggs.</div> <div> Those two Hyacinthine Macaw babies might not be here if I had 'followed the course given to follow on this list about 'parents getting it right.'</div> <bR> <div> There just will never be an excuse to me as a speaker unhatched babies that are in our care as Aviculturist in our Captive Breeding Programs to set </div> <div> by while we watch or don't watch with eyes opened of our breeding birds, </div> <div> destroying, not incubating or eating their eggs or worse yet, dead babies in </div> <div> the nest box much less mentor those beginners to buy equipment less then adequate to accommodate the Psittacines in their care.</div> <bR> <div> No Holder of Captive Bred Birds should be enabled by other Aviculturist by </div> <div> the Holders constant excuse of no money to buy the right equipment to </div> <div> continue having babies that will not live...either in the nest box or the </div> <div> incubator.  More then 70 messages were passed to assist that 21 year old on Parrot Incubation Procedures List 41 days before her last post regarding "oh another egg' of which nothing changed, nothing not even the book was bought and yet, when I unsub her, those who did nothing to assist this 21 year old were the first to blame me and put their 'credentials' behind their accusations while all the time this 21 year old was asking for 'their' help as well mine.  They said nothing, nothing at all, were not there online in a chat room for her.  Three of us assisted her with one putting a time limit on 'when' this 21 year old could call her. </div> <div> while I made myself available for this 21 year old.</div> <div> (btw, when I was 21 I already had my first business, 22 years old had my second business of which I own to this day)</div> <bR> <div> However, for me to sit here on any E-mail group list and to allow myself with no response to the "oh, they'll die' told or suggested by  well known responsible Aviculturist as if this is an 'OK' Avicultural practice ... not on any baby birds life will I ever sit by while another 'comforts' another Aviculturist with this lame excuse for a baby's death...with such okness on the internet.</div> <bR> <div> As Aviculturist with birds in our care...we must learn many, many ways of </div> <div> dealing with our Birds in Captive situation. Our birds are not in the wild </div> <div> they are in our Charge and to easily say 'you may lose some babies ' is just </div> <div> unacceptable to me.</div> <div> It is very difficult to learn Incubation...not easy at all. Once an </div> <div> Aviculturist has the baby hatched (this alone is costly, however..one clutch </div> <div> or sometimes, one baby can pay for some very nice equipment..or four Hahns </div> <div> Macaws can pay for very nice equipment) one has to put their life on 'hold' </div> <div> in order to take care as well be up through the nights to feed this </div> <div> incubated/hatched babies.</div> <bR> <div> Putting two birds together and taking the cream and discarding the rest. Is </div> <div> not what I call a true Aviculture Practice or a responsible attitude towards </div> <div> our birds " that just cannot get it right"...as the saying goes.  Especially </div> <div> when we no longer have imported birds for us to cry out... "they do this in </div> <div> the wild' </div> <bR> <div> Mikee is my nurse butler,  here with me today and in retirement from my captive breeding program. He is 36 years old Hyacinthine Macaw and has fed out at least eight baby females for me and weaned them. He has taught them they are bird/Hyos as he is with some now...and has weaned out these hens. He has taught them to copulate and yet they sing, talk and are loving pets.</div> <bR> <div> Now, this is the same Hyos that has eaten his eggs...or destroys them and </div> <div> yet, everyone knows that this Male Hyos will attend lovingly to all </div> <div> Hyacinthine Macaw females from 2/12 months of age when I'll put them in with </div> <div> Mikeee and he feeds them immediately till weaning.</div> <bR> <div> We can take better care of our Birds if we focus on many different "ways' </div> <div> which should not include 'deaths' in breeding our Captive Bred birds. </div> <div> Sometimes, we are fortunate as I with my Golden Conures, Scarlets and my Hahns to incubate, hatch and feed out to whenever we want to pull them. I have pictures of both of these mothers in the nest box feeding their young that they sat and hatched out ...</div> <div> however, those eggs that didn't make it while I was able to 'incubate and </div> <div> hatch' I'll never forget that somehow I was given permission on the net by </div> <div> other responsible Aviculturist that this is 'OK' and an acceptable act. </div> <div> 'Today, If it includes the death of one single baby, it is unacceptable to </div> <div> me. I've tried to have some kind of remedy for this by opening up </div> <div> List.....to learn and act responsibly.</div> <bR> <div> In my opinion, it is not OK as responsible Aviculturist to have dead babies </div> <div> and or 'getting rid of pairs that just don't do it right' as stated many </div> <div> times by different Aviculturist throughout the Internet.</div> <bR> <div> One clutch of just about anything will pay for 'the Aviculturist to get it </div> <div> right' while our Captive Bred Birds can do it all wrong and remain with us in </div> <div> our Breeding Facilities and find a notch somewhere in our Aviary as Mikee who </div> <div> feeds the Hyos young. </div> <div> BTW, He was discarded by two 'places' because of his attitude about breeding </div> <div> and these two institutions have no babies by Mikee...I do, I have two of Mikee's </div> <div> offspring by pulling the eggs and incubating them these eggs.</div> <bR> <div> Those who may not know ...Mikee was brought into the states by Kim Po for the Ambassador of Great Britain at age 6 months for the two year old female Hyos they had at that time in 1965. The pair lived in New York with the Ambassador and his wife till the Ambassador died.  The pair were donated to the Smithsonian DC and then donated to Disney World, Discovery Island.  I've had Mikee since 1993, January.  </div> <bR> <div> Take care to what you listen to on the net......and more so...how you practice Captive Breeding as an Aviculturist. You may have many babies or you just might have many dead babies!  It is up to you and how you manage your Captive Breeding Facility.</div> <bR> <bR> <bR> <div> Cherane Pefley </div> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <div> <I><B><U> <img src="HTMLobj-241/aniGif.gif" alt="WWW by Cherane Pefley " border="0" align="bottom" width="67" height="50">  </U></B></I><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" >This site was designed and built by: Cherane Pefley Copyright © 1999-2000. All rights reserved</FONT></div> </td> </tr></table></body>