6

<body topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0><tr> <td valign="top" height=90 BGCOLOR="#CC9900" TEXT="#080000" bgproperties="fixed" background="043005a0dwnjzk.gif"> <div> <A HREF="index.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="EDWARD WATSONS WEBWORLD"><U><B>home</B></U></A><B> | </B><FONT SIZE="5" COLOR="#FFCC66" FACE="Arial" ><B>EDWARD WATS</B><B>ON'S WEBWORLD</B></FONT></div> <div> <A HREF="id61.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="SECTION 1 INTRODUCTION"><U><B>SECTION 1 INTRODUCTION</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id62.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="1"><U><B>1</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id66.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="2"><U><B>2</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id67.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="3"><U><B>3</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id68.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="4"><U><B>4</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id55.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="5"><U><B>5</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><B>6</B><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id59.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="7"><U><B>7</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id71.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="8"><U><B>8</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id72.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="9"><U><B>9</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id60.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="10"><U><B>10</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id73.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="11"><U><B>11</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id74.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="12"><U><B>12</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id75.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="13"><U><B>13</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id76.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="14"><U><B>14</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id77.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="15"><U><B>15</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id78.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="16"><U><B>16</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id79.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="17"><U><B>17</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id80.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="18"><U><B>18</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id81.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="APPENDIX"><U><B>APPENDIX</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id82.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="SECTION 1: CONCLUSION"><U><B>SECTION 1: CONCLUSION</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id65.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="ABBREVIATIONS"><U><B>ABBREVIATIONS</B></U></A></div> <div> </div> </td> </tr><tr> <td valign="top" height=390 BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#080000"> <div> <B>[MORMONISM. The Faith of the Twenty-first Century. Volume 1. Edward K. Watson. (Liahona Publications. Copyright © 1998 Edward K. Watson.) pp. 63-82. MORMONISM: Section 1, Chapter 6. All rights reserved.]</B></div> <bR> <div> <U>CHAPTER 6</U></div> <bR> <div> <B>Biblical Passages Which Disprove God's Alleged Ontological Omnipresence </B></div> <bR> <div>      It's important to clarify what omnipresence is.  Omnipresence means everywhere present. No place exists outside it. Ontological omnipresence is a state, a condition or status God is supposed to be in. It isn't a power or perceived ability. God's essence (<I>ousia</I>) is supposed to be ontologically omnipresent and this essence is shared between the three persons of the Godhead. This state of “true reality” (which they claim is nonmaterial) is derived from Greek philosophy. </div> <div>      God has omnipresent abilities and characteristics, but having such doesn't automatically mean he is <I>ontologically omnipresent </I>(<I>by nature</I>). If God can appear to be everywhere despite he really isn't, his omnipresence isn't a state but a power or appearance for our perception.</div> <bR> <div> <B>Ontological Omnipresence of God</B>- State of being. Views God's being/essence to be everywhere. Believed by Judaism, non-Mormon Christianity and Islam.</div> <div> <B>Functional Omnipresence of God</B>- The idea of God existing in humanoid form but because of his power (not state of being) can be everywhere present in two ways.(1) He has the power to warp spacetime so that his person can simultaneously be in as many places as he wishes (similar to a pin can simultaneously fill numerous holes on a sheet of paper). This can also be called the “Effective Omnipresence of God.” (2) Because of God's control over the omnipresent “light” that fills the universe, he has an omnipresent omniscience (he knows everything that can be known anywhere or at any time in the universe) and an omnipresent omnipotence (he can influence anything that can be influenced anywhere or at any time within the universe). In other words, his knowledge and power fills the universe.  Believed by Mormonism.</div> <bR> <div>      These two descriptions of God's omnipresence are mutually exclusive. God can't be both. One is an ontological state while the other is a power. The next two chapters will determine which view is the authentic biblical teaching concerning God's omnipresence.</div> <div>       Theophanies mean God appearing to humans. Every “entity theophany”<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" >1</FONT> recorded in the Bible speaks of God in  anthropomorphic form. Those who believe in God being an omnipresent, formless, nonmaterial being claim anthropomorphic theophanies are only a means God communicates with mortals. </div> <bR> <div>  D&C <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>88:5-13 Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son-- <I>He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things</I>, the light of truth; Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made As also<I> </I>he is in the moon<I>,</I> and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made. As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand. And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings <I>Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space- The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed,</I> even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.</div> <bR> <div>      God can be anywhere in the universe, at any time, because he controls this omnipresent “light” that fills the universe. We Mormons disbelieve God's  omnipresence if it's a <B>state</B>, but will agree to God having the <B>power</B> to be in more places than one since denial of such is a denial of his power, not his state. </div> <div>      Picture a piece of paper with sixteen holes in it. How many needles would be needed to simultaneously plug all sixteen separate holes? Most would say sixteen, but in reality, only one needle is needed to plug all sixteen holes at the same time. Fold the paper and align the holes so that the one needle plugs all the holes at the same time. </div> <div>      The universe can be likened to this sheet of paper since the fabric of spacetime can be warped. This is most noticeable with objects that possess very strong gravitational forces, such as black holes and stars but any object that has mass warps spacetime around it. Concentrating an immense amount of energy at a given area can also warp spacetime in that area and would cause a wormhole to open. </div> <div>      God has the power to warp the fabric of our universe around his person which can cause him to be in as many places as he wishes <I>at the same time</I>. He still occupies a single material body, but this body is  <I>effectively</I> in multiple places at a specific instant in time. </div> <div>      God is just like this needle that effectively exists within all sixteen holes of the paper.<I> God is functionally omnipresent [being a spirit in a “physical body” in humanoid form in multiple places] despite not being ontologically omnipresent [being a nonmaterial formless “something” in multiple places].</I></div> <div>      God possesses the <B>power</B> to appear omnipresent if he wishes but is not within a <B>state</B> of ontological omnipresence. God's knowledge, power and influence are omnipresent due to him having an  omnipresent omnipotence and an  omnipresent omniscience, not, an ontological omnipresence. God knows all things and can go anywhere in the universe, instantaneously.</div> <div>      If God is ontologically omnipresent, nothing can exist outside him. The universe can't be separate from God or else God can't be omnipresent. If he is truly omnipresent, we end up with God existing in all things, or a pantheistic God. The argument “Omnipresence means God is everywhere, not in everything (separating creation from the creator), which is pantheism” is illogical since “everywhere” is a spatial statement that describes <I>three-dimensional volume</I>. As long as “space” exists, “everywhere” means within all spatial volume. All objects, whether rocks, trees, idols, donkeys, humans, stars, etc. <I>occupy space. </I>We (as spirit beings) reside within physical bodies. Our existence shows “spirits” can reside within physical bodies. The area within any object is <I>space</I> and since omnipresence means every<I>where</I>; it automatically includes all things, hence, pantheism, even if our opponents claim the universe is only a portion of God or separate from God.</div> <div>      Making exclusions for God not being present in objects such as idols, hell, evil people, etc. causes God not to be omnipresent, since by definition, omnipresent means<I> everywhere present</I>. <B>The biblical God isn't an ontologically omnipresent God but has the </B><I><B>power</B></I><B> to be anywhere he wishes to be.</B> He is repeatedly differentiated from the universe as its creator, making him separate from the universe. </div> <div>      Some anti-Mormons claim it isn't pantheism since the universe is the lowest form of reality but God, being pure  spirit exists in a higher state. Problems with this argument are the passages our opponents use are based within the observable universe (such as Jer  23:24) making God's alleged ontological omnipresence to include the universe, which results in pantheism, and this entire line of reasoning (that the material world is the lowest form of reality) is based upon Greek philosophy, not the Bible.</div> <div>       Jesus is an exact replica of Heavenly Father. To see one is to see the other. Nothing is limited to Jesus Christ. Despite having a physical body, he can travel instantly to any point in the universe.  He knows everything that occurs in the universe. He can exercise his will upon anything in the universe. <I>Having a physical body doesn't hinder Jesus, why should it hinder Heavenly Father?</I></div> <div>      There are so many problems associated with the assumed  omnipresent status of God since it goes against what the Bible constantly says about God:</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>1) Gen<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And<I> the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.</I></div> <bR> <div>      How can an omnipresent being <I>move</I>? Movement can only occur if boundaries are discernable since the object has something to be measured against. Anything that has boundaries isn't omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div>  2) Gen <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>17:22 And <I>he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham. </I></div> <bR> <div>      God appeared to Abraham ( 17:1), gave him a new name, gave him promises, commandments and revelation, then left Abraham, and went up into heaven. This doesn't describe an omnipresent being but one with discernable dimensions.</div> <bR> <div> 3) Gen <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>18:33 And <I>the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.</I></div> <bR> <div>      God appeared to Abraham ( 18:1), and was one of the three men who appeared to Abraham and went to Sodom and Gomorrah to see with his own eyes whether the sins of these two cities are as great as he heard ( 18:21). After telling Abraham he won't destroy the cities if there were only ten righteous men within them, God went his way after talking with Abraham, who then went home. Does this sound like an  omnipresent being?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>4) Ex <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>19:17-20,24-25 And Moses brought forth the people <I>out of the camp to meet with God</I>; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And<I> mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire</I>: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. And <I>the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount:</I> and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up ... And the LORD said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through <I>to come up unto the LORD</I>, lest he break forth upon them. So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.</div> <bR> <div>      The Israelites left their camp and went to the mountain to meet God. The mountain top was full of fire and smoke when God descended upon it. God warned Moses not to allow anyone other than him and Aaron to come up the mountain to see God. Is this passage describing an omnipresent God or one whose <I>natural state</I> is to be in only in one area at one time? </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>5) Ex <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>20:21 And <I>the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Is God omnipresent? </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>6) Ex <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name <I>I will come unto thee,</I> and I will bless thee.</div> <bR> <div>      God will be with his people when they do what he wants them to do. If they don't, can God be with them? No. Can an ontologically  omnipresent being be separate or absent from anything?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>7) Ex <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>24:1-2,10-13 And he said unto Moses, <I>Come up unto the LORD</I>, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and <I>worship ye afar off</I>. And <I>Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh</I>; neither shall the people go up with him ... And <I>they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone,</I> and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also <I>they saw God, </I>and did eat and drink. And <I>the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount</I>, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and <I>Moses went up into the mount of God.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Is this describing an ontologically omnipresent being or one with discernable boundaries? Does God being in three-dimensional form limit his power or ability in any way? </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>8) Ex <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>25:8 And <I>let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Would God “dwell among them” if they didn't make a sanctuary? No or else God lied. If God is omnipresent, he wouldn't need to make such a command since he is already dwelling with his people and within all of creation.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>9) Ex <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>29:45 And<I> I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.</I></div> <bR> <div>      If God is omnipresent, he was already “dwell[ing] among the children of Israel” and with all things. Why would he need to place his dwelling with the Israelites in the future if he was already doing it?</div> <bR> <div>  10) Ex <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>32:30-31 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now<I> I will go up unto the LORD</I>; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. And <I>Moses returned unto the LORD,</I> and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. </div> <bR> <div>  11) Eccl <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>12:7 Then shall <I>the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Moses will go up the mount to talk to God. He <I>returned</I> to God who was on the mount. Are these possible with a God who's omnipresent? Why did Moses bother going to the mount if God is everywhere? Climbing mountains isn't something people do if they can do the same thing right where they happen to be at the time. How can Moses, our spirits or anyone, <I>return</I> to God if God is omnipresent? <I>There is nowhere to return to.</I> To “return” to a being or place can only be done if there is a spatial separation between the two contrasts. <I>One can never return to a place one has never left, and one can never leave an </I> <I>omnipresence.</I></div> <bR> <div>  12) Deut <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>26:15 <I>Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven,</I> and bless thy people Israel, and the land which thou hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey.</div> <bR> <div>      Where does God reside? Is this verse implying omnipresence?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>13) Neh<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 9:30 Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and <I>testifiedst against them by thy spirit in thy prophets: </I>yet would they not give ear: therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands.</div> <bR> <div>      Why the necessity to identify God's spirit in his prophets if God's spirit is present in everyone and everything? Doesn't this imply there are others who don't have God's spirit? If so, God isn't  omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>14) Job <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>23:3-10 <I>Oh that I knew where I might find him! that I might come even to his seat! I would order my cause before him,</I> and fill my mouth with arguments. I would know the words which he would answer me, and understand what he would say unto me. Will he plead against me with his great power? No; but he would put strength in me. There the righteous might dispute with him; so should I be delivered for ever from my judge. Behold,<I> I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him: On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him:</I> But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.</div> <bR> <div>      Job didn't know where to find God. He can't find God in the North, South, East or West. God hid himself. Can an omnipresent God be absent anywhere?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>15) Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>14:2 <I>The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, </I>to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. (Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>53:2)</div> <bR> <div>      God is in heaven who looks down upon us men on the earth. He isn't omnipresent but spatially separate from us.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>16) Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>33:13-14 <I>The LORD looketh from heaven</I>; he beholdeth all the sons of men. <I>From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.</I></div> <bR> <div>      God's place of residence is in heaven from which he looks down upon the earth.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>17) Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>51:11 <I>Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.</I></div> <bR> <div>      How could the Psalmist ask God not to cast him away from his presence if God is omnipresent? Why bother if it was impossible for God to be non-omnipresent?</div> <bR> <div>  18) Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>65:4 Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and<I> causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts</I>: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple.</div> <bR> <div>      He whom God chooses to approach him and dwell in his presence is blessed. This is impossible if God is ontologically  omnipresent since all will be with him and in him.</div> <bR> <div>  19) Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>80:14 Return, we beseech thee, <I>O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold</I>, and visit this vine.</div> <bR> <div>      God looks down on us from heaven.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>20) Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>102:19 For<I> he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Where is God? In heaven, from which he looks down upon us. Is this verse describing an omnipresent God or one who is spatially separate but omniscient?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>21) Ps <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>115:3<I> But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Where is God? Is he also upon the earth? No, since the Psalmist was showing the superiority of YHWH over the other gods represented by the idols. When one asks where the Israelite's God is, the Israelite wouldn't point to an idol but will say his God's in heaven while idols are immobile and impotent. </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>22) Eccl<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: <I>for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: </I>therefore let thy words be few.</div> <bR> <div>      Where is God? Where is man? Is God omnipresent or is he spatially separate from man?</div> <bR> <div>  23) Isa <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>40:22 [It is]<I> he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers;</I> that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and<I> spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.</I></div> <bR> <div>      God is in heaven and is so far up that the inhabitants of the earth look like grasshoppers. He stretches the heavens and dwells in it like one dwells in a tent. One who lives in a tent doesn't fill every cubit inch with his being.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>24) Isa <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>63:15 <I>Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory:</I> where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?</div> <div>  </div> <div>      God is in heaven and sees man upon the earth.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>25) Lam<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 3:50 Till <I>the LORD look down, and behold from heaven. </I></div> <bR> <div>      God resides in heaven and looks down on us. He isn't  omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>26) Ezek<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:26-28 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne <I>was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it</I>. And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from <I>the appearance of his loins even upward</I>, and from<I> the appearance of his loins even downward, </I>I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness <I>round about</I>. <I>This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it,</I> I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake. </div> <bR> <div>      Ezekiel saw God sitting on a throne whose glorious appearance was extremely bright. God was in anthropomorphic form and wasn't omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>27) Matt<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 5:16,45,48 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify <I>your Father which is in heaven</I> ... That ye may be the children of your<I> Father which is in heaven: </I>for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust ... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your <I>Father which is in heaven</I> is perfect. </div> <bR> <div>  28) Matt<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your <I>Father which is in heaven</I>. </div> <bR> <div>  29) Matt<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our<I> Father which art in heaven</I>, Hallowed be thy name.</div> <bR> <div>  30) Mark <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that<I> your Father also which is in heaven</I> may forgive you your trespasses.</div> <bR> <div>  31) Luke <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our <I>Father which art in heaven, </I>Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. <I>Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Heaven is separate from earth. Heavenly Father is in heaven. We are upon the earth. Was Jesus mistaken when he taught us to pray to our “Father in heaven”? <I>If God is ontologically omnipresent, why didn't Jesus ever say so?</I> Why did he propagate falsehood by saying our Father is in heaven? How is our Father omnipresent when heaven is spatially separate from earth? </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>32) Matt <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?  that is to say, <I>My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?</I></div> <bR> <div>      How could God withdraw himself from Jesus if he was ontologically omnipresent? God would be incapable of separating himself if he was truly omnipresent since an omnipresent being is incapable of making himself non-omnipresent or else he wouldn't be omnipresent. Additionally, an omnipresent God can't be an omnipotent God in the classical sense since he is incapable of eliminating his state of omnipresence. </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>33) Luke<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, <I>I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee</I>, and to shew thee these glad tidings.</div> <bR> <div>      Gabriel stands before God. He was sent to speak to Zecharias. Gabriel left God's “presence” and went down to appear to Zecharias. Was Zecharias within God's “essence” or does this passage show a separation from God and those who are with him in heaven from those upon the earth?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>34) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:32-33 And John bare record, saying,<I> I saw the Spirit </I>descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom<I> thou shalt see the Spirit descending,</I> and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.</div> <bR> <div>      Can an omnipresent being be seen? If God is  omnipresent, he would've been present within John, including his eyes, and within all the universe. How could John see anything? It isn't possible to discern anything that's omnipresent since seeing anything can only occur if boundaries and features can be seen. Can one measure a quarter cup of water if the cup is held under water in the ocean?</div> <bR> <div>  35) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 3:31-35 <I>He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. </I>And <I>what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth;</I> and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and<I> hath given all things into his hand. </I></div> <bR> <div>      Jesus came from above. Humans are from earth but Jesus is from heaven. Heaven and earth are spatially separate. Jesus testifies of what he saw and heard. Sight is only possible if there are boundaries and separation from the observing point. Jesus can't see something if he is omnipresent.  How can God give all things to him if Jesus and the Father are ontologically omnipresent?</div> <bR> <div>  36) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen <I>his shape.</I></div> <bR> <div>      God has a shape. An omnipresent being doesn't. Since God has a shape, he isn't omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>37) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 6:32-38 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you <I>the true bread from heaven</I>. For<I> the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven,</I> and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them,<I> I am the bread of life</I>: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For <I>I came down from heaven</I>, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.</div> <bR> <div>      The True Bread came down from heaven, which is Jesus. Does this sound like a being who is everywhere present which makes any spatial movement on his part nonsensical?</div> <bR> <div>  38) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 7:29,33 But I know him: for <I>I am from him, and he hath sent me</I> ... Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, <I>and [then] I go unto him that sent me.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Jesus is from God the Father and was sent by him. Impossible if God is  omnipresent since Jesus could never be sent from a place or person he's never been separated from.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>39) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 8:14,21-23 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for <I>I know whence I came, and whither I go</I>; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go ...  Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins:<I> whither I go, ye cannot come</I>. Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. And he said unto them, <I>Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world</I>.</div> <bR> <div>  40) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>13:3,33,36 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that <I>he was come from God, and went to God</I> ...  Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, <I>Whither I go, ye cannot come</I>; so now I say to you ... Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him,<I> Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now</I>; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.</div> <bR> <div>      Could an omnipresent being say these things?</div> <div>      </div> <div>  41) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>14:2-9 <I>In my Father's house are many mansions: </I>if it were not so, I would have told you. <I>I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.  And whither I go ye know,</I> and the way ye know. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man <I>cometh unto the Father</I>, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and <I>have seen him</I>. Philip saith unto him, Lord,<I> shew us the Father</I>, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? <I>he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; </I>and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?</div> <bR> <div>      There are many mansions in Heavenly Father's kingdom and Jesus goes to heaven to prepare places in heaven for the righteous. Jesus goes, Jesus comes to receive the righteous who are to be with him. Where Jesus resides, the righteous dwells with him. Does this sound like an omnipresent being or does it convey separation from the wicked? We go to the Father through Jesus. Can the Father be ontologically omnipresent? Those who look upon the physical appearance of Jesus sees the appearance of the Father. Since Jesus was in human form and wasn't a formless omnipresent being, this means the Father isn't a formless  omnipresent being either.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="BernhardMod BT" > </FONT>42) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>14:23,28 Jesus answered and said unto him,<I> If a man love me, he will keep my words</I>: and my Father will love him, and<I> we will come unto him, and make our abode with him</I> ...  Ye have heard how I said unto you, <I>I go away, and come again unto you.</I> If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, <I>I go unto the Father:</I> for my Father is greater than I.</div> <bR> <div>      What about those who don't love and obey Jesus? Will the Father be with them? No. Is he then omnipresent? No. Companionship is conditional and refutes any literal omnipresence. Jesus leaves us mortals on the earth and goes to the Father. Spatial separation impossible with an ontological omnipresence.</div> <bR> <div>  43) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 7:34 <I>Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.</I></div> <bR> <div>  44) John<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins:<I> whither I go, ye cannot come. </I></div> <bR> <div>  45) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews,<I> Whither I go, ye cannot come;</I> so now I say to you.</div> <bR> <div>      How can an ontologically  omnipresent God separate himself from anyone? There isn't a place that exists that isn't filled by an omnipresent God. Did Jesus lie when he said in John  7:34;  8:21;  13:33, “You can't go to where I'm going”? If God is omnipresent and since Jesus is God, he has to be part of the essence (<I>ousia</I>) of God. This is supposed to be everywhere present but since he said his followers can't follow him to where he's going, he can't be omnipresent or partaking of this alleged omnipresence since Jesus is describing a spatial separateness impossible to reconcile with God's alleged omnipresence. A square peg can't fit in a round hole and God's ontological omnipresence is demonstrably false. </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>46) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>15:4-7 <I>Abide in me, and I in you</I>. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; <I>no more can ye, except ye abide in me.</I> I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. <I>If a man abide not in me,</I> he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. <I>If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you,</I> ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.</div> <bR> <div>      The interpenetration of the true disciple with Jesus is conditional. How can anyone “abide not in [Jesus]” if Jesus is ontologically omnipresent due to being within the essence (<I>ousia</I>) of God?</div> <bR> <div>  47) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>16:5-10,17 But <I>now I go my way to him that sent me; </I>and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; <I>It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come,</I> he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because <I>I go to my Father, and ye see me no more</I> ... Then said [some] of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because <I>I go to the Father? </I></div> <bR> <div>      Does this sound like an omnipresent God? Did Jesus remain when he went away? No. Did the apostles have the Holy Ghost when Jesus was with them? No. Is Jesus omnipresent? No. Is the Holy Ghost omnipresent? No. </div> <bR> <div>  48) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>16:28-30<I> I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. </I>His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this <I>we believe that thou camest forth from God.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Jesus came from God and went into the world. He leaves this world and goes back to God. Two separate places. Jesus came from God.</div> <bR> <div>  49) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>17:1,5,24 <I>These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father,</I> the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee ... And now,<I> O Father,</I> glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory<I> which I had with thee before the world was</I> ... Father,<I> I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, </I>which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.</div> <bR> <div>      This is a fascinating passage which is examined in depth in MORMONISM: Section 4 but these three verses show some remarkable things. Jesus is on the earth praying to his Father in heaven. If Jesus believed “God” (of which he's part of) is omnipresent, why did he always refer to Heavenly Father as being in heaven? Why did he always focus his worship to heaven if God is everywhere? Why did his action always demonstrate spatial separateness not only of the Father from himself but especially from mankind in general. God was always separate from us on earth and was in heaven, `out there.' Jesus asked to receive back his glory which he previously had with the Father before the earth was created and even states he wishes for his true disciples to be with him in heaven so that they could see his glory. All of these are impossible if God is ontologically  omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>50) John <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for <I>I am not yet ascended to my Father:</I> but go to my brethren, and say unto them, <I>I ascend unto my Father</I>, and your Father; and <I>to my God</I>, and your God.</div> <bR> <div>      “I am not yet ascended to my Father” conveys spatial separation. If the Father is omnipresent, why bother ascending to him if he's everywhere anyway? Where is the Father? In a place Jesus needed to ascend to in order to be with him. Was the Father on earth? Was he everywhere? No or else what Jesus said would be nonsensical. One can't “ascend” to a place that is everywhere, including where one's presently at. </div> <bR> <div>  51) Acts<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 3:20-21 And<I> he shall send Jesus Christ, </I>which before was preached unto you: <I>Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things</I>, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. </div> <bR> <div>      Jesus must remain in heaven until the time of the “restitution of all things.” During the period before the time of the “restitution of all things” was Jesus outside heaven or did he remain in heaven? How can he remain in heaven and at the same time be omnipresent?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>52) Acts<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also <I>the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Will God give the Holy Ghost to those who disobey? No. The disobedient don't have the Holy Ghost (who is God) with them which shows God isn't  omnipresent. </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>53) Rom<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,<I> if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. </I></div> <bR> <div>      We are of the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us but if we don't have the Spirit, we're  not Christ's. Obedience to the faith [church/gospel] (Acts  6:7; Rom  1:5; etc.) allows God to dwell in us. Some have the Spirit and some don't. Could God b e omnipresent if his spirit isn't in everyone? Of course not.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>54) 2 Cor<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, <I>whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.</I></div> <bR> <div>      We are separated from God while being in mortal bodies. How is this possible if God is omnipresent?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>55) 2 Cor<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 5:17,21 Therefore<I> if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: </I>old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new ... For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that <I>we might be made the righteousness of God in him.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Those who are “in Christ” are new creatures and are changed into the righteousness of God by being “in” Jesus. If God is omnipresent, all things are “in” him which would mean all are saved. This is clearly untrue, consequently, there is no such thing as God being ontologically omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>56) 2 Cor<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 7:3 I speak not this to condemn you: for I have said before, that<I> ye are in our hearts to die and live with you.</I></div> <bR> <div>      If our opponents insist we have to take the “interpenetration” passages to mean an ontological omnipresence, shouldn't we take 2 Cor  7:3 to mean an ontological omnipresence as well? This mentions a profound unity similar to the interpenetration passages only this time Paul is the one speaking. Paul said these members are in his heart and their unity causes them to live and die together. Was Paul omnipresent? <I>The interpenetration passages don't mean an ontological omnipresence since interpenetration is a power.</I> God has the ability to dwell in us and we receive the power to dwell in him.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>57) Eph<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:20 Which<I> he wrought in Christ</I>, when he raised him from the dead, and <I>set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Heavenly Father raised Jesus from the dead and placed him on his right hand side in the heavenly realm. Where is God? In heaven and Jesus is currently sitting at his right. This conflicts with the idea of God's ontological omnipresence.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>58) 2 Th<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from <I>the presence of the Lord,</I> and from the glory of his power.</div> <bR> <div>      The wicked will be cast out from the presence/face of the Lord. If God is omnipresent, there isn't a place where anyone can go without being within God. It is impossible for the wicked to be cast from God if God fills al l things.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>59) Heb<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 9:24 For<I> Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands</I>, which are the figures of the true;<I> but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Is Jesus now in God's presence? Was he ever outside it? God the Father is in heaven which is separate from the earth.  Ontological omnipresence is clearly wrong.</div> <bR> <div>  60) 1 Pet<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you<I> with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;</I> which things the angels desire to look into.</div> <bR> <div>      The Holy Ghost was sent down from heaven. Is it possible for an omnipresent being to be “sent” anywhere?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>61) 1 Pet<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 3:21-22 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of <I>Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; </I>angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.</div> <bR> <div>      Jesus Christ left the earth and went into heaven to sit at the right hand side of Heavenly Father. Where did Jesus go? Is heaven separate from the earth? Is this passage describing an omnipresent God or does it clearly show spatial separation impossible with an ontologically omnipresent being?</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>62) 1 Jn<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 3:24 And <I>he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.  And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Our interpenetration with God is conditional upon our obedience to him. Those who don't obey can't receive this interpenetration. God doesn't dwell in them. Since God doesn't; he isn't ontologically omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>63) 1 Jn<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 4:12-16 No man hath seen God at any time. <I>If we love one another, God dwelleth in us</I>, and his love is perfected in us. <I>Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. </I>And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. <I>Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.</I> And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and<I> he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.</I></div> <bR> <div>      Will God dwell in us if we don't love one another? No. If we don't confess that Jesus is the Son of God; does God dwell in us? No. If we don't dwell in love; do we dwell in God and does he dwell in us? No. Can an ontologically omnipresent being <I>not </I>dwell in certain people? No since ontological omnipresence, by definition, means everywhere present. </div> <bR> <div> <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>64) Jude<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT> 1:19 <I>These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.</I></div> <bR> <div>      How can anyone separate themselves from the spirit of God if God is ontologically omnipresent and fills everything? </div> <bR> <div>      Why do the Scriptures describe God's spirit as departing, withdrawn (also see Deut  32:30; Hos  5:6;  9:12), absent, enter into you, etc. if he is ontologically omnipresent? These words convey limitations. God's Spirit can never leave anyone if he is ontologically  omnipresent since an omnipresent state demands the absence of any place he isn't. </div> <div>      If God is a  nonmaterial being who fills all of creation, this would obviously mean there isn't a place that God is not present since ontological omnipresence means everywhere present. <B>It is obvious that the Bible doesn't teach God is ontologically omnipresent when it is examined honestly.</B> In fact, God's supposed omnipresence leads to pantheism, where God is present in every cubic centimeter of the universe, even if our opponents claim God and the universe are separate, since the separation of God from the universe is an artificial boundary due to being in logical conflict with an ontological omnipresence.</div> <div>      If God is omnipresent, that would mean God is everywhere. Can God dwell in the hearts of the unrighteous such as murderers and rapists? Can he be found in places of sin and vice? Can God be within idols or graven images? Can he be in the church of Satan? Can he be in filth and excretion? Can he be in demons and Satan? Can he be in hell? No! Why would idolatry be condemned more than a hundred times in the Bible if God was present in the materials that make up those idols? Demons are in idols, not God (Deut  32:16-17; Ps  106:36-37; 1 Cor  10:19-22).<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" >2</FONT> Why the presence of numerous passages in the Bible that mentions God being in heaven? Don't they imply he's not here on the earth? Jesus Christ always referred to Heavenly Father as “up in heaven”(Matt  5:16,45,48;  6:1,9;  7:11,21;  10:32-33;  12:50;  16:17;  18:10,14,19;  23:9; Mark  11:25-26; Luke  11:2). Heaven is where God resides (Isa  57:15) just like my family resides in Canada. These passages don't mean he fills all of heaven in the same way my family doesn't fill all of Canada. </div> <div>      What is heaven? The universe? According to our critics, God is supposed to be ontologically omnipresent. If they say he fills the entire universe except this earth, we should ask them for proof. In addition, such an understanding takes away ontological omnipresence. Another fact that needs to be pointed out is if one is on the moon, everything outside the moon is considered “heaven” including the earth. The separation of heaven from the earth is a purely subjective concept. The term “heaven” as opposed to the “earth” is naturally applicable to anyone residing on any planet in this vast universe who looks up into the sky. Anything outside of the planet he's on will be termed “heaven.” Because of this elementary astronomy lesson, such an argument is groundless.</div> <div>      <B>If God is ontologically omnipresent, the Scriptures are unreliable since they describe a </B> <B>non-omnipresent God</B> hundreds of times throughout the Bible. Keeping in mind omnipresence/non-omnipresence of God when reading the Bible destroys the idea of God being ontologically omnipresent since the vast majority of instances which mention him being spatially separate and non-omnipresent aren't th eophanies. They are statements of Jesus and the prophets concerning God. </div> <div>      God isn't ontologically omnipresent (he isn't omnipresent by nature) but is functionally omnipresent (he has the ability to simultaneously be in as many places as he wishes, he knows everything everywhere in the universe and can exercise his will on everything that can be influenced, anywhere in the universe).</div> <bR> <div> <B>[ENDNOTES]:</B></div> <bR> <div> 1.In contrast with theophanies of nature such as thunderstorms, clouds, fire, etc. see ABD. 6:965.</div> <div> 2.Bar 4:7.</div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="mailto:ewatson@shaw.ca" TARGET="_top" TITLE="mailto:ewatson@shaw.ca"><U>e-mail me!</U></A></div> <bR> </td> </tr></table></body>