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<body topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0><tr> <td valign="top" height=90 BGCOLOR="#CC9900" TEXT="#080000" bgproperties="fixed" background="043005a0dwnjzk.gif"> <div> <A HREF="index.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="EDWARD WATSONS WEBWORLD"><U><B>home</B></U></A><B> | </B><FONT SIZE="5" COLOR="#FFCC66" FACE="Arial" ><B>EDWARD WATS</B><B>ON'S WEBWORLD</B></FONT></div> <div> <A HREF="id61.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="SECTION 1 INTRODUCTION"><U><B>SECTION 1 INTRODUCTION</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id62.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="1"><U><B>1</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id66.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="2"><U><B>2</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id67.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="3"><U><B>3</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id68.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="4"><U><B>4</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id55.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="5"><U><B>5</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id69.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="6"><U><B>6</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id59.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="7"><U><B>7</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id71.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="8"><U><B>8</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id72.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="9"><U><B>9</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id60.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="10"><U><B>10</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id73.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="11"><U><B>11</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id74.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="12"><U><B>12</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id75.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="13"><U><B>13</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id76.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="14"><U><B>14</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id77.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="15"><U><B>15</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id78.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="16"><U><B>16</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id79.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="17"><U><B>17</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><B>18</B><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id81.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="APPENDIX"><U><B>APPENDIX</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id82.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="SECTION 1: CONCLUSION"><U><B>SECTION 1: CONCLUSION</B></U></A><B>   |   </B><A HREF="id65.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="ABBREVIATIONS"><U><B>ABBREVIATIONS</B></U></A></div> <div> </div> </td> </tr><tr> <td valign="top" height=390 BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#080000"> <div> <B>[MORMONISM. The Faith of the Twenty-first Century. Volume 1. Edward K. Watson. (Liahona Publications. Copyright © 1998 Edward K. Watson.) pp. 199-204. MORMONISM: Section 1, Chapter 18. All rights reserved.]</B></div> <bR> <div> <U>CHAPTER 18</U></div> <bR> <div> <B>Is the Mormon “God” Inferior to the Traditional Christian's and What the Bible Says about God?</B></div> <bR> <div>      Opponents of Mormonism claim our “God” is different and inferior to the God of the Bible and Traditional Christianity.</div> <div>      Due to being a student of the Scriptures, both ancient and modern, I can confidently state that our critics are mistaken when they say that the Mormon “God” is not the God of the Bible. </div> <div>      In a nutshell, our critics will portray the LDS concept of Heavenly Father's heritage to have reference to a locale in this universe. This is simply not true since the Latter-day Scriptures are quite clear that Heavenly Father is the ruler of this entire universe and ordered Jesus to do the actual creation (Mos 1:33-38; 7:30; 2 Ne  2:14; Mosi  4:9; D&C  45:1;  76:24;  93:10; Mosi  5:15;  7:27; 3 Ne  9:15; D&C  38:1,3;  45:1-3 cf. John  1:1-3; Rom  11:32-36; 1 Cor  8:6; Eph  3:9; Col  1:13-17; Heb  1:2;  2:10;  11:3; Rev  3:14). </div> <div>      These scriptural passages prove Heavenly Father existed prior to the creation of the universe and rules over the entire universe.</div> <div>      The Mormon concept of Heavenly Father's mortal origin can only be placed in an area outside this universe, before its creation.</div> <div>      As I understand it, the Mormon concept of God and his relationship with the universe is as follows:</div> <div>      Because God created the universe, he knows everything that will happen during the existence of the universe. He knows everything that can be known about it. He is master of his creation and can interact with it, anywhere or at any time and can't be restrained by it. God is a being who controls the transmission of information in the universe,<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" >1 </FONT>and also controls the omnipresent “light” (D&C  88:5-13) that enables God to do anything, know everything and go anywhere (by warping spacetime around his person).</div> <div>      God exists outside the universe and outside of time just as a man exists outside a balloon. This “balloon” we call the universe is expanding and all matter, energy <I>and time itself</I> started at the period of its creation which is known as the  Big Bang. Matter, energy and time will end when the universe ceases to exist, either through the universe imploding upon itself (a closed universe otherwise known as the Big Crunch) or through a continuous expansion (an open universe), which will eventually result in the ceasing of change (called the Big Freeze).</div> <div>      Since God exists outside of this universe, he can be considered to be an eternal present because to us, he appears to have neither a beginning nor an end. Why? Because he was already what he was when he created the universe (time only started at the creation) and he will still be the way he is when the universe will end (time will cease at the end of the universe). Because of this God, can be called “unchanging.”</div> <div>      As for passages in the Bible that mention God being the only God and there isn't any other or nothing can compare to him (such as Ps  113:4-6; Isa  40:12-18,25-26;  43:10-13;  44:6-8;  45:5-7;  46:9-10; Jer  10:6-7), we take these passages to have reference to this universe and not to a denial of any outside this universe. The Latter-day Scriptures say the same thing (Alma  11:28-29; Mos  1:6). </div> <bR> <div> <B>A comparison between the Traditional Christian and the Mormon concepts of God</B> </div> <bR> <div>      The Traditional Christian concept of God and the Mormon concept can be summed up as:</div> <bR> <div> 1) There is one God in three persons, coequal, coeternal, etc. This is otherwise known as the Athanasian Creed or the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.</div> <bR> <div>      Mormons view the word “God” to have reference to either the Father, Son or Holy Ghost, or to the three collectively. We also use it as a species designation in contrast with the human species/natures. We view these three to be separate and distinct entities who are one in all things except the Greek philosophical “substance” which is alleged to be omnipresent, formless and nonmaterial. We don't believe the Athanasian Creed due to its usage of these philosophical formulations. (See MORMONISM: Section 4). We solely accept the NT Triad of the Godhead that has three self-aware personages who share the “God” nature, who have the greatest unity three ontologically separate beings can possibly have, and who function within a singular authority.</div> <bR> <div> 2) He's the only God.</div> <bR> <div>      He's the only God <I>of this universe</I>. Such a statement doesn't mean he can't rule over other universes since if he could make one he can certainly make others. Such a statement doesn't deny the possibility of the existence of other Gods in other universes.  This is God's universe. No matter where a person goes in this universe, he will never be able to find another God anywhere. From this one planet out of at least nine in our solar system circling one star in this galaxy of at least 200 to 400 billion stars, which is only one galaxy out of at least 100 billion galaxies, this great and mind-boggling universe belongs to Heavenly Father. He is the supreme ruler of all of this creation that comprises trillions upon trillions of planets and stars. This one planet of ours is not even a grain of sand in comparison to this magnificent universe God has made, with the visible universe itself as being an infinitesimal portion of what he created at the Big Bang. (The Doctrine of Exaltation is examined in MORMONISM: Section 5).</div> <bR> <div> 3) He's always been God.</div> <bR> <div>      He's always been God <I>in relation to the universe and time as we know it.</I> God exists outside of time. He isn't constrained by space and time. He's been what he is before he created the universe and time (which is a property of the universe). He will still be what he is after the universe and time ceases to exist.</div> <div>      We disbelieve the philosophical aseity of God. For us, God used to be a mortal being who resided upon a world in another universe who attained exaltation. In that universe, he evolved and changed into a perfect being. After attaining a state of perfection, which entail becoming omniscient and omnipotent, he created this universe through the instrumentality of his Son, whom we know is Jesus Christ.</div> <bR> <div> 4) God is a nonmaterial spirit.</div> <bR> <div>      God is   a spirit being (not nonmaterial) housed in an immortal body; just as we are spirits housed in mortal bodies (D&C  130:22;  93:33).</div> <bR> <div> 5) God is omniscient.</div> <bR> <div>      God is  omniscient. He knows everything (Gen  6:5; 1 Sam  2:3; 1 Chr  28:9; Job  28:24; Ps  33:13-15; 1 Jn  3:20).<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" >2</FONT> He knows all things in the past, present and future (Isa  41:21-23;  42:9;  46:10; Acts  4:28; D&C  130:7). </div> <bR> <div> 6) God is omnipotent.</div> <bR> <div>      Strictly speaking, God isn't omnipotent in the classical sense. We would say God is all-powerful, by virtue of having ultimate control over all available powers, or there isn't any power in the universe that God can't use. The statement, “God can do anything he wants” (Luke  1:37 cf. Mosi  3:5) is limited by boundaries such as all things logically possible. He can't save an unrepentant sinner, he can't lie, he can't destroy himself, he can't save anyone who doesn't adhere to the conditions of salvation. Despite various limitations, God possesses mind-boggling powers including the ability to create the universe. If the statement, “God can do anything” implies omnipotence; then Paul's statement, “I can do anything through Christ” (Phil  4:13) must imply humans possessing it as well. </div> <bR> <div> 7) God is<FONT SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" > </FONT>ontologically omnipresent. He is a spiritual nonmaterial entity that fills the universe with his being.</div> <bR> <div>      God is not ontologically omnipresent but is  functionally omnipresent [can be in as many places as he wishes at one time, can know everything everywhere and do anything anywhere]. His nature is limited to only one spatial location but he has the power to simultaneously be in as many places as he desires (i.e., he is <I>normally</I> only in one place at one time but can be in more than one place at one time if he wishes). He can influence and know everything at once. In other words, <I>God has an omnipresent omniscience and an omnipresent omnipotence.</I> Because of these characteristics of God, he doesn't need to be ontologically omnipresent.</div> <bR> <div> 8) God created the entire universe.</div> <bR> <div>      God created the entire universe (Mosi  4:9). Our other doctrine of the existence of Heavenly Father as once being a mortal humanoid was in a location in another universe, not this one.</div> <bR> <div> 9) He is unique and will always be so.</div> <bR> <div>      He 's unique in comparison to anything in the universe especially the deities represented by the idols (Ps  113:4-6; Isa  40:12-18,25-26; Jer  10:6). He's unique in his sinlessness, holiness, knowledge and power. Just because he's unique now doesn't mean he will be a trillion years from now. He is unique at this moment to anything we can compare him with. There is nothing and no one that can compare to God in our universe. Such a claim of uniqueness doesn't imply there aren't any like him among the infinite number of universes in the multiverse.</div> <bR> <div> 10) He exists outside of time. Consequently, he is an eternal present.</div> <bR> <div>      He exists outside of time. Consequently, time has no meaning for him. In him, the past, present and future are all rolled up into one present (D&C  130:7) [admittedly, a simplistic model]. Time is a property of the universe that he created and he isn't limited by it.</div> <bR> <div> 11) He is holy and sinless.</div> <bR> <div>      He is holy (Lev  11:44-45;  19:2;  20:26)<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#000000" FACE="Arial" >3</FONT> and sinless to the same extent Jesus is holy and sinless since Jesus replicated what Heavenly Father did (John  5:19).</div> <bR> <div> 12) He is a loving and merciful God.</div> <bR> <div>      He is a loving and merciful God.</div> <bR> <div>      I am stupefied at how glorious and awesome God is. He is truly a God that deserves glory, honor and respect. The Mormon concept of who God is can't be considered to be inferior to the Traditional Christian's view. If anything, it is more conforming to the Bible because it eliminates the weaknesses of the traditional view that are derived from Greek philosophy.</div> <bR> <div> <B>Do Mormons have a different “God”?</B></div> <bR> <div>      This Section has demonstrated that the God of the Bible and the God of Mormonism is the same “God” despite the claims of those who oppose the LDS faith. To summarize the comparative views of God:</div> <bR> <DIV ALIGN="LEFT"></DIV> <div> <TABLE BORDER="2" CELLPADDING="1" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="541" BORDERCOLORLIGHT="#C0C0C0" BORDERCOLORDARK="#808080" FRAME="BOX" RULES="ALL" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" > <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 39 WIDTH="113"><div> <B>GOD IS</B></div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER><NOBR><div> <B>THE BIBLE</B></div> </NOBR></tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER><NOBR><div> <B>MORMONISM</B></div> </NOBR></tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> <B>NON-MORMON CHRISTIANITY</B></div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="113"><div> Spirit</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="113"><div> All-good</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="113"><div> All-knowing</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="113"><div> All-powerful</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 ><NOBR><div> God of the Universe</div> </NOBR></tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 32 WIDTH="113"><div> Anthropomorphic Form</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> No</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 ><NOBR><div> Physical Body</div> </NOBR></tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Implied</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> No</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="113"><div> Exalted Man</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Implied</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> No</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 32 WIDTH="113"><div> Ontologically Omnipresent</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> No</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> No</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 32 WIDTH="113"><div> Functionally Omnipresent</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> Yes</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> No</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="113"><div> Nonmaterial</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> No</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> No</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> <tR> <tD VALIGN=CENTER HEIGHT= 16 WIDTH="113"><div> Formless</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="95"><div> No</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="130"><div> No</div> </tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="178"><div> Yes</div> </tD> </tR> </TABLE></div> <bR> <div>      <B>Mormonism is the only faith that faithfully adheres to the Bible's real teaching on Heavenly Father.</B> If Mormonism has a different “God” than non-Mormon Christianity, this means non-Mormon Christianity has a different “God” than the Bible's God, which should give pause to those who criticize Mormonism since <I>the Bible's description of God is identical with how he's conceived in the LDS faith.</I> Instead of criticizing us for our devotion to the real biblical teaching on God, they should examine their own theistic beliefs and determine why they deviate from what the Bible actually teaches. I encourage all to abandon falsehood, accept the Truth and join the Lord's true church.</div> <bR> <div> <B>[ENDNOTES]:</B></div> <bR> <div> 1.God controls all forms of information transmission. Because of his control over all forms of sub-light information, he knows all things in the past. Because of his control over all light speed information, he knows all things at any given moment. Because of his control over all supra-light information, he knows all things that will happen within the universe, until the very end of time itself. Any being who controls all three forms of information transmission is literally the master of the universe. </div> <div> Because of God's mastery of these three forms of information transmission; when he says there will never be another God who will replace him in the future, he knows this is true by his mastery of supra-light speed information.</div> <bR> <div> 2.Also see Ps  94:11;  139:1-18;  147:5; Prov  15:3; Isa  46:10;  48:3,5,7,16;  66:18; Ezek  11:5; Matt  10:29; John  16:30; Acts  15:18; Rom  11:33; Col  2:3; Heb  4:13; 1 Ne  9:6;  20:5; 2 Ne  2:24;  9:20; WoM  1:7; Alma  7:13;  18:18;  26:35;  40:5,10; Morm  8:17; Moro  7:22; D&C  38:2;  88:6,41;  121:24;  127:2;  130:7; Mos  1:6,35;  7:67; Abr 2:8.</div> <div> 3.Also see Ps  29:2;  93:5; Josh  24:19; Ps  16:10; Prov  9:10; Isa  6:3;  41:14;  57:15; Mark  1:24; Luke  4:34; Acts  2:27;  3:14;  13:35; 1 Pet  1:15-16; 2 Ne  6:9,15;  9:11,19-20,39;  15:16;  31:5-7; Alma  5:52-53;  19:4; Hela  8:25;  12:2; Morm  9:4,14; D&C  78:15-16.</div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="mailto:ewatson@shaw.ca" TARGET="_top" TITLE="mailto:ewatson@shaw.ca"><U>e-mail me!</U></A></div> <bR> </td> </tr></table></body>