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Phoenix, Just found a site you might be interested in. It displays Thangka paintings and mandalas. Click here. Enjoy.
I've enjoyed reading the replies to Ravi's question about what love is and what it isn't. By a curious turn of events, I happen to have for a short time in my possession a copy of Cave In The Snow. As usual, I opened it at "random" and this is what I read - While being like an "empty house" may seem desirable to a meditator, to the average person, brought up on the notion that passion and emotional involvement is what gives life its colour and verve, such a state could seem vapid and remote. Was being an "empty house" the same as being a "shell" of a person - cold and unfeeling? And what is the difference between detachment and being cut off from your emotions anyway? Tenzin Palmo, as might be expected, refuted all such insinuations. 'It's not a cold emptiness,' she stated emphatically, 'it's a warm spaciousness. It means that one is no longer involved in one's ephemeral emotions. One sees how people cause so much of their own suffering just by thinking that without having these strong emotions they're not real people. 'Why does one go into retreat,' she went on hotly. 'One goes into a retreat to understand who one really is and what the situation truly is. When one begins to understand oneself then one can truly understand others because we are all interelated. It is very difficult to understand others while one is still caught up in the turmoil of one's emotional involvement - because we're always interpreting others from the standpoint of our own needs. That's why, when you meet hermits who have really done a lot of retreat, say twenty-five years, they are not cold and distant. On the contrary. They are absolutely lovely people. You know that their love for you is totally without judgement because it doesn't rely on who you are or what you are doing, or how you treat them. It's totally impartial. It's just love. Whatever you did they'd still love you because they understand your predicament and in that understanding naturally arises love and compassion. It's not based on sentiment. It's not based on emotion. Sentimental love is very unstable, because it's based on feed-back and how good it makes you feel. That is not real love at all.' Richard, your post reminds me of a line from a movie (can't remember the title) about time-travel and how two teenage boys laid the foundation for a future "utopia" with the phrase "Be excellent to each other" or somethin like that. :)
While being like an "empty house" may seem desirable to a meditator, to the average person, brought up on the notion that passion and emotional involvement is what gives life its colour and verve, such a state could seem vapid and remote. Was being an "empty house" the same as being a "shell" of a person - cold and unfeeling? And what is the difference between detachment and being cut off from your emotions anyway? Tenzin Palmo, as might be expected, refuted all such insinuations. 'It's not a cold emptiness,' she stated emphatically, 'it's a warm spaciousness. It means that one is no longer involved in one's ephemeral emotions. One sees how people cause so much of their own suffering just by thinking that without having these strong emotions they're not real people. 'Why does one go into retreat,' she went on hotly. 'One goes into a retreat to understand who one really is and what the situation truly is. When one begins to understand oneself then one can truly understand others because we are all interelated. It is very difficult to understand others while one is still caught up in the turmoil of one's emotional involvement - because we're always interpreting others from the standpoint of our own needs. That's why, when you meet hermits who have really done a lot of retreat, say twenty-five years, they are not cold and distant. On the contrary. They are absolutely lovely people. You know that their love for you is totally without judgement because it doesn't rely on who you are or what you are doing, or how you treat them. It's totally impartial. It's just love. Whatever you did they'd still love you because they understand your predicament and in that understanding naturally arises love and compassion. It's not based on sentiment. It's not based on emotion. Sentimental love is very unstable, because it's based on feed-back and how good it makes you feel. That is not real love at all.' Richard, your post reminds me of a line from a movie (can't remember the title) about time-travel and how two teenage boys laid the foundation for a future "utopia" with the phrase "Be excellent to each other" or somethin like that. :)
Tenzin Palmo, as might be expected, refuted all such insinuations. 'It's not a cold emptiness,' she stated emphatically, 'it's a warm spaciousness. It means that one is no longer involved in one's ephemeral emotions. One sees how people cause so much of their own suffering just by thinking that without having these strong emotions they're not real people.
'Why does one go into retreat,' she went on hotly. 'One goes into a retreat to understand who one really is and what the situation truly is. When one begins to understand oneself then one can truly understand others because we are all interelated. It is very difficult to understand others while one is still caught up in the turmoil of one's emotional involvement - because we're always interpreting others from the standpoint of our own needs. That's why, when you meet hermits who have really done a lot of retreat, say twenty-five years, they are not cold and distant. On the contrary. They are absolutely lovely people. You know that their love for you is totally without judgement because it doesn't rely on who you are or what you are doing, or how you treat them. It's totally impartial. It's just love. Whatever you did they'd still love you because they understand your predicament and in that understanding naturally arises love and compassion. It's not based on sentiment. It's not based on emotion. Sentimental love is very unstable, because it's based on feed-back and how good it makes you feel. That is not real love at all.'
Richard, your post reminds me of a line from a movie (can't remember the title) about time-travel and how two teenage boys laid the foundation for a future "utopia" with the phrase "Be excellent to each other" or somethin like that. :)
My moments of gratitude seem to be more constant these days... and added another one when I read the most recent posts. I, too, like Olive trees! Blessings to you all!
~Wednesday, July 12, 2000~Q: Would it not be better to just leave things to Pure Potentiality rather than using the Law of Desire?A: This is of course the ideal, to surrender to Spirit and accept whatever happens in our life as being exactly what is required at that time. However, if we are not at a point where we can be that accepting, then we use the law of Desire. Desires can be fulfilled, transmuted, or transcended but they can never be suppressed. The key to having desires is always to be detached from their outcome, this is like giving nature a hint. We express our desire but at the same time say, "If there's something better, please send that instead". So, in a way, by being detached, we are expressing our opinion but ultimately leaving it to Pure Potentiality.www.chopra.com
Q: Would it not be better to just leave things to Pure Potentiality rather than using the Law of Desire?
A: This is of course the ideal, to surrender to Spirit and accept whatever happens in our life as being exactly what is required at that time. However, if we are not at a point where we can be that accepting, then we use the law of Desire. Desires can be fulfilled, transmuted, or transcended but they can never be suppressed. The key to having desires is always to be detached from their outcome, this is like giving nature a hint. We express our desire but at the same time say, "If there's something better, please send that instead". So, in a way, by being detached, we are expressing our opinion but ultimately leaving it to Pure Potentiality.www.chopra.com
thanks Richard and thank you, Peggy for the welcome to Tennessee. WOW! what a beautiful place. we spent the day at Cades Cove and this Floridian saw what she was missing living in the flatlands, heh! anyway just a quick note to say Hi to everyOne from Tn and next, i am meeting a friend i've communicated online with for 5 years, Dove Voice (Mary Anne), for the first time. Ooltawah, i think, as i don't have my note here. she is living in a mountain retreat with a Tantric Master in residence so i am really looking forward to it.Namasté friends!
anyway just a quick note to say Hi to everyOne from Tn and next, i am meeting a friend i've communicated online with for 5 years, Dove Voice (Mary Anne), for the first time. Ooltawah, i think, as i don't have my note here. she is living in a mountain retreat with a Tantric Master in residence so i am really looking forward to it.
Namasté friends!
Okay, time for everyone to get out for a long walk, sunshine, and fresh air. See what you see, hear what you hear, smell what there is...be nice to yourselves, each other, and therefore God. Peace, friends of light Namaste'
Peace, friends of light
Namaste'
The "Threefold Nature of Man".Spirit,soul,& body. Man is a spirit being, he has a soul & lives in a body.The spiritual man is the inner man, the hidden man of the heart.The soul consists of the mind,the will & the emotions.The body as we all know consists of the flesh.There are times when we have a desire in our heart to do certain things but our flesh has other plans and the desires of the flesh are so strong we can't resist.Relationships are a good example of how men in general allow their carnal or fleshly desires excercise dominion over them.One part of them, their spirit,the inner man, that hidden man of the heart wants to continue in his present relationship.But his flesh desires more.The flesh has unquenchable desires.It cannot be satisfied.A spiritually minded person learns to bring their flesh into subjection and not let it have dominion over the vessel.To be carnally minded is torment.Fasting is a good method, but not the only method to keep the body under.Also by meditating on carnal things does nothing more than strengthen & give life to the desires of the flesh.We tend to act out our most dominate thoughts.Those thoughts seek expression in the physical material world.Notice how in order to succeed in anything you must give it alot of thought & see yourself succeeding,then you will desire that success so strongly that you just have to have it.And we all know that desire is the starting point of all achievement.So give thought to spiritual or positive things so your desires will flow in the direction of those things your heart desires.Rather then meditating on having an affair with someone out of wedlock knowing the end result, which is grief, is more devistating long term than the initial pleasure of yielding to the flesh.Don't sabotage yourself by giving thought to something, deep down inside you know you really don't want to do.Because by meditating on it you feed that desire therbey making it almost imposible to resist.
The "Threefold Nature of Man".Spirit,soul,& body. Man is a spirit being, he has a soul & lives in a body.The spiritual man is the inner man, the hidden man of the heart.The soul consists of the mind,the will & the emotions.The body as we all know consists of the flesh.There are times when we have a desire in our heart to do certain things but our flesh has other plans but the desires of the flesh are so strong we can't resist.Relationships are a good example of how men in general allow their carnal or fleshly desires excercise dominion over them.One part of them, their spirit,the inner man, that hidden man of the heart wants to continue in his present relationship.But his flesh desires more.The flesh has unquenchable desires.It cannot be satisfied.A spiritually minded person learns to bring their flesh into subjection and not let it have dominion over the vessel.To be carnally minded is torment.Fasting is a good method, but not the only method to keep the body under.Also by meditating on carnal things does nothing more than strengthen & give life to the desires of the flesh.We tend to act out our most dominate thoughts.Those thoughts seek expression in the physical material world.Notice how in order to succeed in anything you must give it alot of thought & see yourself succeeding,then you will desire that success so strongly that you just have to have it.And we all know that desire is the starting point of all achievement.So give thought to spiritual or positive things so your desires will flow in the direction of those things your heart desires.Rather then meditating on having an affair with someone out of wedlock knowing the end result, which is grief, is more devistating long term than the initial pleasure of yielding to the flesh.Don't sabotage yourself by giving thought to something, deep down inside you know you really don't want to do.Because by meditating on it you feed that desire therbey making almost imposible to resist.
D2, I can't think of anyone that I had rather have birthday greetings from. Let there be peace between us. (Let's make it a gift to the kid who loves olive trees so much.) :-) I'm not "there" in the sense of remaining in an enlightened state. I am much too earth-bound. But I am "there" in that there is no more dependence on what the future may bring most of the time. I'm pleased to know that things are going well in your marriage. I had sensed that you are more at peace. Early in our marriage, Dave and I looked forward to the time when we would be like "old shoes" -- comfortable, familiar, dependable. It's okay to be scuffy but a little polish never hurts now and then. You have a very romantic spirit and that is part of the polish! I tried to find the piece from the end of the movie "The Corn is Green" for you but with no success. I haven't given up though. One thing that is good about our shadow-sides is that there are people who love us -- shadows and all! Learning to embrace our own shadows is quite a challenge. But that is where there is a lot of personal growth. I know that you already know all of this but it feels good to say it here. I wish you peace, merriment and light...
I'm not "there" in the sense of remaining in an enlightened state. I am much too earth-bound. But I am "there" in that there is no more dependence on what the future may bring most of the time.
I'm pleased to know that things are going well in your marriage. I had sensed that you are more at peace. Early in our marriage, Dave and I looked forward to the time when we would be like "old shoes" -- comfortable, familiar, dependable. It's okay to be scuffy but a little polish never hurts now and then. You have a very romantic spirit and that is part of the polish!
I tried to find the piece from the end of the movie "The Corn is Green" for you but with no success. I haven't given up though.
One thing that is good about our shadow-sides is that there are people who love us -- shadows and all! Learning to embrace our own shadows is quite a challenge. But that is where there is a lot of personal growth. I know that you already know all of this but it feels good to say it here.
I wish you peace, merriment and light...
Necesito información acerca de lugares donde pueda recuperarme,mi diagnóstico: úlcera esofágica,hernia hiatal y colon irritable. Realizo tratamiento dependiendo de medicación y continúo sin superación alguna.
I heard/was taught, "face the light and the shadows are always behind you". Works for me. Namaste' o buckaroos (Vaqueros) of the enlightenment trail.
Works for me.
Namaste' o buckaroos (Vaqueros) of the enlightenment trail.
I love "Olive Trees".
Prettig verjaardag (Happy birthday in Dutch) Pegs and don't choke on that piece of cake when you read this . . . ;-) Are we ever really there ? If we are then we are either fully enlightened or dead. You are definitely not the latter and congratulations on reaching the former, or... Just enjoy the ride, bumps and all. Peaks and valleys are everywhere and an integral part of the ride. Enjoy today's peak and be aware of and embrace the ride through the next valley. That is what I meant to Hadi and Geoff about shadows.
Are we ever really there ? If we are then we are either fully enlightened or dead. You are definitely not the latter and congratulations on reaching the former, or...
Just enjoy the ride, bumps and all. Peaks and valleys are everywhere and an integral part of the ride. Enjoy today's peak and be aware of and embrace the ride through the next valley.
That is what I meant to Hadi and Geoff about shadows.
Your question is a very important one. Do I love my wife or my projection of her ? Two years ago the answer would have been very different than what it is today. Love changes and grows only when we learn to first love and accept ourselves for who we are and where we are on our path. When we love a projection, we are in a state called infatuation (one I know VERY well). Infatuation is wonderful and dangerous and leads to all the states in your post. It is all powerful as infatuation leads us to do things for what we think is our endless love. It causes kings to abdicate thrones (Edward and Mrs. Simpson), crazy forum posters to move to Nashville for love (relax everyone, I'm talking about myself there), and in extreme cases death (Romeo and Juliet). When infatuation has its grip, it is a powerful thing. It looks like and feels like love. We feel energized by each other's presence but it is a chemical reaction over which we have no control because inside of us we feel something is missing. It can indeed lead to love, but with most things it takes time and knowledge that it is an infatuation and not love. I know you hate quotes, but perhaps Whitney Houston said it best, "learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all." Only when you are there can you love another and let them be who they are, rather than the projection of who you think they are. Or, perhaps when we realize that everybody is just doing the best they can at the time, we realize that there is really only one of us in the room. Sorry it got a bit longer than I intended... Cheers.
Love changes and grows only when we learn to first love and accept ourselves for who we are and where we are on our path. When we love a projection, we are in a state called infatuation (one I know VERY well).
Infatuation is wonderful and dangerous and leads to all the states in your post. It is all powerful as infatuation leads us to do things for what we think is our endless love. It causes kings to abdicate thrones (Edward and Mrs. Simpson), crazy forum posters to move to Nashville for love (relax everyone, I'm talking about myself there), and in extreme cases death (Romeo and Juliet).
When infatuation has its grip, it is a powerful thing. It looks like and feels like love. We feel energized by each other's presence but it is a chemical reaction over which we have no control because inside of us we feel something is missing.
It can indeed lead to love, but with most things it takes time and knowledge that it is an infatuation and not love.
I know you hate quotes, but perhaps Whitney Houston said it best, "learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all." Only when you are there can you love another and let them be who they are, rather than the projection of who you think they are.
Or, perhaps when we realize that everybody is just doing the best they can at the time, we realize that there is really only one of us in the room.
Sorry it got a bit longer than I intended... Cheers.
Geoff, by keeping one's face turned towards the light, they ignore their darkness and that is the worst thing that can happen. Ignoring the darkness is impossible, it only leads to lifetimes of running away from the dark. Without darkness or shadows, one cannot see true light, only the reflected light of those around you.
Without darkness or shadows, one cannot see true light, only the reflected light of those around you.
Happy Birthday Peggy!
I marvel at the similarities of Deepak's doctrine & that of the Bible's.For example,Proverbs 23:7 says,"As a man thinketh in his heart,so is he."Implying that our life tends to flow in the direction of our most dominate thoughts.The doctrine of "affirmations" is also in the bible. Romans 10:17-Faith cometh by hearing & hearing...
Dear friends, I am overwhelmed by the generosity of your birthday gifts to me! It is great to hear from some old friends as well as those who have remained a constant in my life. (Kitty, the cake was delicious! Geoff, I loved the card and now I know how to post those cards here!) Yesterday I turned fifty-seven. So far, it's the best year. ;-) It was the perfect birthday! Carol, I like the synchronicity of the Deepak quotation and I whole-heartedly concur! I am at a point in my life where I am "there." Until the last year or so, I was saying to myself, "I will be happy when..." Now the fall of the first yellow leaf or a ten-year-old's giggle is cause for celebration. (Welcome to Tennessee, by the way!) Thanks for celebrating with me! Peace, merriment and light = love.
Yesterday I turned fifty-seven. So far, it's the best year. ;-) It was the perfect birthday!
Carol, I like the synchronicity of the Deepak quotation and I whole-heartedly concur! I am at a point in my life where I am "there." Until the last year or so, I was saying to myself, "I will be happy when..." Now the fall of the first yellow leaf or a ten-year-old's giggle is cause for celebration. (Welcome to Tennessee, by the way!)
Thanks for celebrating with me!
Peace, merriment and light = love.
I am interested in obtaining information on Deepak's speaking engagements and on any workshops or seminars on his material.
Thanks for the link Geoff. I think reading all those links would give a lay person a pretty good grasp of the enigma of water (as science understands it). Ravi, the experience of love in my view is the surrender of the ego so that we are able to experience the divinity of the Self projected on the beloved. This applies to loving hamburgers, cars, people, ideas, and soul mates. If you believe that divinity is in everything, then it is possible to love anything and everything. Ego rarely surrenders completely, so love manifests itself only on those “things” that can more easily slide past the ego’s defense of the idea of sepreation, like a parents love of their children or the love of our mates. That’s my 2 cents.
Ravi, the experience of love in my view is the surrender of the ego so that we are able to experience the divinity of the Self projected on the beloved. This applies to loving hamburgers, cars, people, ideas, and soul mates. If you believe that divinity is in everything, then it is possible to love anything and everything. Ego rarely surrenders completely, so love manifests itself only on those “things” that can more easily slide past the ego’s defense of the idea of sepreation, like a parents love of their children or the love of our mates. That’s my 2 cents.
"Clear away the wreckage of the past" (yours and others), for a Present.
Dedpak's=Deepak that's what i get for trying to type in the dark.
just a line to tell you that i signed in this morning and found your birthday celebration and then checked out Dedpak's site and found the birthday question. it was a nice synchronicity for me.
~Monday, July 10, 2000 ~ Q: How do we experience pure consciousness? A: As it's right here in everything, the question should be, "How do we miss it?". We miss it because our attention is always being distracted by our memories and desires, the past, the present and the future. Pure consciousness is in the present. When you spend time in the present moment you will find pure consciousness. Meditation is the best tool to help us do this but anytime you allow your attention to be with the witness of your experience instead of getting caught up in the experience itself, you will find pure consciousness.www.chopra.com
Q: How do we experience pure consciousness?
A: As it's right here in everything, the question should be, "How do we miss it?". We miss it because our attention is always being distracted by our memories and desires, the past, the present and the future. Pure consciousness is in the present. When you spend time in the present moment you will find pure consciousness. Meditation is the best tool to help us do this but anytime you allow your attention to be with the witness of your experience instead of getting caught up in the experience itself, you will find pure consciousness.
www.chopra.com
~Tuesday, July 11, 2000 ~ Q: I would like your opinion whether birthdays should be celebrated or not. A: We should celebrate every day as if it is our birthday. www.chopra.com
Q: I would like your opinion whether birthdays should be celebrated or not.
A: We should celebrate every day as if it is our birthday.
Happy Birthday, Peggy! sorry i missed the party and i do "love" Kitty's cake! :) i missed checking in cuz i'm traveling up to your lovely state to visit sis (Seymour, Tn)and taking the grandkids, too. wow! what a project! they were hauling things out for an hour that they "must" take, heh! anyway, i'll check in from my sis' house to read the great discussions and to find out if Ravi hears the answer he is looking for....love to all and Namasté
i missed checking in cuz i'm traveling up to your lovely state to visit sis (Seymour, Tn)and taking the grandkids, too. wow! what a project! they were hauling things out for an hour that they "must" take, heh! anyway, i'll check in from my sis' house to read the great discussions and to find out if Ravi hears the answer he is looking for....
love to all and Namasté
Hadi, keep your face turned towards the light and you'll never see any shadows. :)
Ravi, the answer is that love is all of the above AND none of the above. Hope this helps. It's like the old expression, if you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer. :)
Happy Birthday Peggy Click here for the full "card"
Happy Birthday Peggy
Click here for the full "card"
Hello to one and all, Chris, Geoff, Hadi, Carol, thank you for the research on the anamolies in the properties and sub-atomic composition of water, the wonder liquid, the sustainer of lakes, rivers and the seas with so many life forms, here on earth and God knows, where else in space! It's amazing how a seemingly simple thing can become so technical and difficult to understand when the scientific lingua is brought to bear on it. I think it sounds like some kind of elitism or knowledge/insight possessed by a lucky few - I don't mean in a pejorative sense. How is a common person to understand it? There must be another way to show that water has these unusual qualities, like, "so that forms of life swim and live . . ., in an experiential way, in a way it relates to an evolutionary plus, enabler, enhancer, nurturer of life like the eternal feminine that draws us on . . . . Chris, the site you sent us to . . . mindboggling! Thanx. I now realize I asked the wrong question in the first place! In passing I am also immensely puzzled by how people quote from books they have read, or authors whose wisdom has impressed them in some way. Can we express our own original? ideas based on real experiences/realizations etc.? Because when one quotes, the 'words' become literal and devoid of the force of the personal feeling which makes them alive and potent. Pardon my ignorance. What is 'love'? Everyone quotes, writes and elaborates its virtues. Can someone explain the phenomenon to me? Is it: 'I love a hamburger'. Or is it: 'Sweetheart, I love you so much; let's go to bed and celebrate". Or is it: 'Soulmate, I love you so much that I'm not going to touch you but draw inspiration from your ambience to grow and prosper.' Or is it an unattached dispassionate feeling emanating from the heart, touching and bonding with every object, thing, entity and concept like 'time' and 'space' around me? Which one is it? Is it subjective or objective? All of the above or none of the above? Please no quotes; your very own perceptions that make you 'you'. Does everyone have it or only the privileged few? The chosen few? How does one acquire this marvellous virtue? Do lookin on:(and bask in the glow) The Latitude Syndrome The Three Verbs of Being May this 'love' prevail upon you soon! Namaste from Ravi
Chris, Geoff, Hadi, Carol, thank you for the research on the anamolies in the properties and sub-atomic composition of water, the wonder liquid, the sustainer of lakes, rivers and the seas with so many life forms, here on earth and God knows, where else in space!
It's amazing how a seemingly simple thing can become so technical and difficult to understand when the scientific lingua is brought to bear on it. I think it sounds like some kind of elitism or knowledge/insight possessed by a lucky few - I don't mean in a pejorative sense. How is a common person to understand it? There must be another way to show that water has these unusual qualities, like, "so that forms of life swim and live . . ., in an experiential way, in a way it relates to an evolutionary plus, enabler, enhancer, nurturer of life like the eternal feminine that draws us on . . . .
Chris, the site you sent us to . . . mindboggling! Thanx.
I now realize I asked the wrong question in the first place!
In passing
I am also immensely puzzled by how people quote from books they have read, or authors whose wisdom has impressed them in some way.
Can we express our own original? ideas based on real experiences/realizations etc.? Because when one quotes, the 'words' become literal and devoid of the force of the personal feeling which makes them alive and potent.
Pardon my ignorance.
What is 'love'? Everyone quotes, writes and elaborates its virtues. Can someone explain the phenomenon to me?
Is it: 'I love a hamburger'.
Or is it: 'Sweetheart, I love you so much; let's go to bed and celebrate".
Or is it: 'Soulmate, I love you so much that I'm not going to touch you but draw inspiration from your ambience to grow and prosper.'
Or is it an unattached dispassionate feeling emanating from the heart, touching and bonding with every object, thing, entity and concept like 'time' and 'space' around me?
Which one is it? Is it subjective or objective? All of the above or none of the above?
Please no quotes; your very own perceptions that make you 'you'.
Does everyone have it or only the privileged few? The chosen few?
How does one acquire this marvellous virtue?
Do lookin on:(and bask in the glow)
The Latitude Syndrome The Three Verbs of Being
May this 'love' prevail upon you soon!
Namaste from Ravi
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