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Spot on. "Love is a verb". All this time we spend thinking about it or explaining it or talking about it ... how much time do we spend doing it ...
I would invite prayers for my daughter, Gretchen Self, who is 29 years old and has had a double bypass on June 18th of 1999 and now how going in for diagnostic angiogram for problems with her heart...And prayers for Dr. Hollowell, who will guide her through this angiogram and will interpret and correct whatever problems he sees...your prayers are needed and will be deeply appreciated...pray also for her brother and my son, Willie, whose pain is so deep...
Actually, "Who made God?" is an intereesting question. I was talking with my eight-year-old niece on the weekend and she asked "Where did the first people come from?" I said it all depends on whether you believe in a God or in evolution. She instantly asked "Well, if God exists, who made God?" I said he made himself, which was an answer she hadn't expected and it seemed to end the conversation. :) So, if you want a tricky question to ponder, try answering that in a way an 8 year old can understand ... :)
That was supposed to read as "vacant looks". :)
Well, Ravi, since we are all interconnected, then in a very real sense Tenzin's thoughts are my thoughts. :) There is a reason some words survive 20 or 25 centuries whereas this morning's chatter over a cup-of-tea is forgotten almost as soon as they are said. In the course of a lifetime we think and say and hear and read literally billions of words. Most of them lack any real clarity or depth or insight or coherence or impact. That's why they are instantly forgettable whereas some words you hear or think or say or read become etched into your consciousness. When you have those "Aha! That's it!" moments, then you have read or said or heard or thought something which is a universal truth. Or at least something which has taken you a little step closer to it, since I don't believe the ultimate truth can be fully expressed using a vehicle as limited as human conceptual language. I'm sure if you went up to most people in the street and asked "What is love?" you'd get some pretty vacnat looks and most would indeed be stumped for words. Part of us knows what it is but when we try to put it into words, many of us would lack the inspiration to say anything terribly memorable. But thanks for asking. It is THE essential question of our existence. Apart from "Who am I?" ... or "Who made God?" ...
There is a reason some words survive 20 or 25 centuries whereas this morning's chatter over a cup-of-tea is forgotten almost as soon as they are said. In the course of a lifetime we think and say and hear and read literally billions of words. Most of them lack any real clarity or depth or insight or coherence or impact. That's why they are instantly forgettable whereas some words you hear or think or say or read become etched into your consciousness.
When you have those "Aha! That's it!" moments, then you have read or said or heard or thought something which is a universal truth. Or at least something which has taken you a little step closer to it, since I don't believe the ultimate truth can be fully expressed using a vehicle as limited as human conceptual language.
I'm sure if you went up to most people in the street and asked "What is love?" you'd get some pretty vacnat looks and most would indeed be stumped for words. Part of us knows what it is but when we try to put it into words, many of us would lack the inspiration to say anything terribly memorable. But thanks for asking. It is THE essential question of our existence. Apart from "Who am I?" ... or "Who made God?" ...
hi Ravi - no time to read but for me love is the pure energy field where no fear exists. will try to read a little later, dear One, and thank you for asking your wonderful question. Namasté
Denis: I tend to agree with you about the shadow. My concern is that there is too much emphasis from some quarters of Spiritual thinking on "embracing" one's shadow rather than recognising and acknowledging it for what it is. I think this particular emphasis of embracing our negativity is a New Age phenomenon, while the process of recognition, detached as it is, tends to be much more effective for understanding and disarming our shadow. IMO.
overnmental Awards and Recognition of Falun Dafa from China and North America Since its public introduction in May 1992, Falun Dafa has attracted over 100 million practitioners worldwide in just seven years. Falun Dafa cultivation emphasizes that one should conduct oneself according to the principle of "Truth-Compassion-Tolerance". Regardless of gender and age, regardless of nationality and race, every practitioner who persistently cultivates his/her heart and practices the exercises has benefited tremendously. Constant diligent cultivation has brought significant changes to many practitioners in both physical conditions and moral values. At the same time, Falun Dafa is gaining worldwide understanding and appreciation, especially in Asia, Australia, Europe, and North America. Listed below are some awards issued by some local governments in China,Canada and US in recognition of the extraordinary contribution made by Master Li Hong Zhi and Falun Dafa to people's mental and physical health. Just as Master Li Hong Zhi said in Chicago this June, "a practitioner takes worldly fame lightly. The award has no special meaning to myself; but to Falun Dafa, the meaning of the award is profound. It represents the understanding and recognition of Falun Dafa by human beings and society." He hopes that more kindhearted people will join the path of cultivating Falun Gong. July 15, 2000 Proclamation from the City of Deerfield Beach, Florida May 17, 2000 Congratulations from U.S. Congressman in Pennsylvania May 17, 2000 Proclamation from the House of Representatives of Pennsylvania May 13, 2000 Proclamation of World Falun Dafa Day, City of League City, Texas May 4, 2000 A Congratulation Letter from the City of Houston, Texas (5/10/00) January 9, 2000 "Falun Dafa Week" in Boone County, Missouri December 26, 1999 "Falun Dafa Week" in Columbia, Missouri November 29, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" and "Falun Dafa Days (Week)" in Seattle, Washington (rescinded later on due to pressure from Chinese government) November 20, 1999 Official recognition by the Mayor of San Antonio, Texas October 25, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" and "Falun Dafa Week" in Kearny, New Jersey October 16, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" in Birmingham, Alabama October 9, 1999 "Falun Dafa Day" in Middlesex County, New Jersey October 9, 1999 "Master Li Hongzhi Day" in the City of Edison, New Jersey September 18, 1999 "Falun Dafa Day" in the City of Saint Louis, Missouri September 9, 1999 More Commendation for Falun Dafa from New Jersey September 3, 1999 City of Atlanta awards Master Li "Honorary Citizen" August 16, 1999 Proclamation of "Falun Dafa Day" in Philadelphia by Mayor Edward G. Rendell August 14, 1999 "Honorary Citizenship" awarded by Maryland State Governor Parris N. Glendening (text and image) (rescinded later on due to pressure from Chinese government) August 13, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" in Baltimore, Maryland (rescinded later on due to pressure from Chinese government) August 9-13, 1999 Washington D.C.'s Falun Dafa Week proclaimed by Mayor Anthony A. Williams (text and image) August 8, 1999 "Li Hongzhi Day" in Jersey City, New Jersey, text file July 23, 1999 Commendation letter from Governor Gray Davis of California (text and image) July 19, 1999 Mayor Ron Gouzales of San Jose City, California welcomed Master Li (text and image) June 25, 1999 Illinois awarded Master Li Hongzhi -Appraisal letter from Illinois governor George H. Ryan -Chicago Master Li Hongzhi Day -Illinois Treasurer's Award for Outstanding Service May 22, 1999 Welcome letter from Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, Canada Welcome letter from Mayor Mel Lastman of Toronto, Canada October 12, 1996 Houston, Texas Named Master Li: "Honorary Citizen" and "Goodwill Ambassador" Proclaimed "Li Hongzhi Day" December, 1993 1993 Oriental Health Expo, Beijing, China: Master Li was honored with "The Award for Advancing Boundary Science" and "Qigong Master most acclaimed by the masses" December 27, 1993 The Honor Certificate Conferred by A Foundation under the Ministry of Public Security of China September 21, 1993 A Report on the Newspaper Published by the Ministry of Public Security of China August 31, 1993 A Thank-You Letter from A Foundation under the Ministry of Public Security of China Find More Information on Falun Dafa Editors: eng_editor@minghui.ca Web designers: webteam@minghui.ca You are welcome to copy and distribute the materials as long as you do not modify the contents. Updated at Ma
Ravi: Are you looking for new material for your next book? Perhaps the answer you were looking for was "love is a verb"? I have a friend, Sam, who has a history of short, unfulfilled relationships. One night Sam and I got to speaking of "love". Sam, you see, believes he does love, and has loved, and knows love. He "loves" shopping, he "loves" money, he "loves" cars, he "loves" women. I said to Sam, that for me and the Mystic, these definitions were not "love". The love for one's child is essentially different from the love of "pizza", or at least it should be. The word love is used too broadly to include many relationships we have with our world and many attachments we have within those relationships. Even the dictionary will define love as "a great attachment to and affection for" or "a passionate desire, longing, and feeling". For me these are ego definitions. They are "desire" and "passion" which are motivated by Ego needs to possess and are attached, transient and conditional. While both desire and passion have an element of love in them, they are not love itself. Certainly the desire that cannot distinguish between the love for a pickle and the love for a lover is not the love that Jesus or Shakespeare spoke of. The Mystic puts a great emphasis on "unconditional" love, and on "detached" love. Here the Mystic seeks to redefine the traditional understanding of love; the tribal definition of the advertising agencies, the media and romantic novels is essentially a possessive love. The Mystic is speaking of love which is both "compassion" and "empathy". Yet, the tribal definition of compassion remains as "pity". Krishnamurti tried very hard to emphasise that compassion is not "pity", which is to feel sorry for another and thereby make that person "wretched" and "lower". He defined compassion as "empathic love". This essentially defines the "detached" love as being rich, caring, sensitive and much as was expressed in Geoff's post quoting Tenzin Palmo. It is not cold and indifferent, nor is it whimsical, shallow or trite. We also have the definition that "love is God" or "God is love". This definition falls into the heart of the Mystic's understanding of love. For, at the scientific root of the Mystic's belief is the understanding that love is essentially an Energy. This Energy has been identified by Buddhists as a "resonance" - a vibration. It is this resonance we feel when we desire a thing or person, and different people feel it at different intensities. Arguably, some don't feel it at all. This resonance, this energy, this is the "Life Force" energy of the universe. It has also be known as Cosmic Energy, Universal Energy, "Aum". It is a super-intelligent energy for anyone who has experienced it through the sixth chakra. The life giving energy of the universe is therefore the life creating energy. It is That which gave rise to you and me and the birds and the bees and the trees. As such, this then, the Creator of life which can be sensed by the living "energetic" organisms as "love" can be rightly defined as God. This is where the distinctions, I hope, become a little clearer. When I feel true love for my cat, a dog, the birds and the trees, I am experiencing an "empathy" of life and compassion for that life form, which is precious, delicate and magnificent. When I feel love for a car, a hamburger(?), or other inanimate things, all I am doing is energising or vitalising the "life force" energy within to achieve a simulated pleasure of "love", which remains transient and ultimately empty. Like masturbation. This is like a projection, if you excuse the pun. This kind of expression of love is possessive, motivated by the need to possess and to control the "object" of desire. It is not real love. I think a person who believes that his love for a Kebab is the same as his love of a woman, a child, a brother, or his dog should seriously examine and question his or her own beliefs. Such a person has chosen this definition because of the Ego's essential "fear" of love. This fear may be based simply on ignorance, or more likely it is based on bad experiences. Negative associations. If, for example, as a child our experiences of those we loved, our parents perhaps, if those "relationships" left negative "impressions", our "tendency" would become to avoid them by repressing or suppressing love through "denial". In the same way, if we experience a great deal of rejection in our romantic relationships we may develop a tendency not to get close or involved with others. This is not detachment. It is fear. These become "unconscious" factors in our personality which we do not recognise or identify. We have redefined our world and our understanding according to "ego fears". In these situations it is difficult to see past our own delusion, but believe me, if you equate the love of a woman or a man with the love of material objects you could do worse than seek professional help. I am not saying this as a put down, and ego will want to read it that way, I am saying it with compassion. You need to get in touch with your Self. To use the argument that "All is One" in order to justify such a delusional idea that our transient ego desires are the same as "love" is pure sophistry by a clever mind. Ego will find any way it can to justify it's own perceived perfection. The contention would have to follow that we should love a cow-pat as much as we love our burger or our spouse, since to differentiate would be "conditional" and would create separation. We could go on to say that killing millions is fine because there is no such thing as death. Such arguments are clearly nonsense in the evolutionary plateaux we find ourselves in. If, however, I was still an earth-worm, I could be wrong. The cow-pat may be more desirable. As Einstein said, "it's all relative". Or was that Sylvia?
I have a friend, Sam, who has a history of short, unfulfilled relationships. One night Sam and I got to speaking of "love". Sam, you see, believes he does love, and has loved, and knows love. He "loves" shopping, he "loves" money, he "loves" cars, he "loves" women.
I said to Sam, that for me and the Mystic, these definitions were not "love". The love for one's child is essentially different from the love of "pizza", or at least it should be. The word love is used too broadly to include many relationships we have with our world and many attachments we have within those relationships. Even the dictionary will define love as "a great attachment to and affection for" or "a passionate desire, longing, and feeling".
For me these are ego definitions. They are "desire" and "passion" which are motivated by Ego needs to possess and are attached, transient and conditional. While both desire and passion have an element of love in them, they are not love itself. Certainly the desire that cannot distinguish between the love for a pickle and the love for a lover is not the love that Jesus or Shakespeare spoke of.
The Mystic puts a great emphasis on "unconditional" love, and on "detached" love. Here the Mystic seeks to redefine the traditional understanding of love; the tribal definition of the advertising agencies, the media and romantic novels is essentially a possessive love. The Mystic is speaking of love which is both "compassion" and "empathy". Yet, the tribal definition of compassion remains as "pity".
Krishnamurti tried very hard to emphasise that compassion is not "pity", which is to feel sorry for another and thereby make that person "wretched" and "lower". He defined compassion as "empathic love".
This essentially defines the "detached" love as being rich, caring, sensitive and much as was expressed in Geoff's post quoting Tenzin Palmo. It is not cold and indifferent, nor is it whimsical, shallow or trite.
We also have the definition that "love is God" or "God is love". This definition falls into the heart of the Mystic's understanding of love. For, at the scientific root of the Mystic's belief is the understanding that love is essentially an Energy. This Energy has been identified by Buddhists as a "resonance" - a vibration. It is this resonance we feel when we desire a thing or person, and different people feel it at different intensities. Arguably, some don't feel it at all. This resonance, this energy, this is the "Life Force" energy of the universe. It has also be known as Cosmic Energy, Universal Energy, "Aum". It is a super-intelligent energy for anyone who has experienced it through the sixth chakra. The life giving energy of the universe is therefore the life creating energy. It is That which gave rise to you and me and the birds and the bees and the trees. As such, this then, the Creator of life which can be sensed by the living "energetic" organisms as "love" can be rightly defined as God.
This is where the distinctions, I hope, become a little clearer. When I feel true love for my cat, a dog, the birds and the trees, I am experiencing an "empathy" of life and compassion for that life form, which is precious, delicate and magnificent. When I feel love for a car, a hamburger(?), or other inanimate things, all I am doing is energising or vitalising the "life force" energy within to achieve a simulated pleasure of "love", which remains transient and ultimately empty. Like masturbation. This is like a projection, if you excuse the pun. This kind of expression of love is possessive, motivated by the need to possess and to control the "object" of desire. It is not real love. I think a person who believes that his love for a Kebab is the same as his love of a woman, a child, a brother, or his dog should seriously examine and question his or her own beliefs. Such a person has chosen this definition because of the Ego's essential "fear" of love. This fear may be based simply on ignorance, or more likely it is based on bad experiences. Negative associations. If, for example, as a child our experiences of those we loved, our parents perhaps, if those "relationships" left negative "impressions", our "tendency" would become to avoid them by repressing or suppressing love through "denial". In the same way, if we experience a great deal of rejection in our romantic relationships we may develop a tendency not to get close or involved with others. This is not detachment. It is fear.
These become "unconscious" factors in our personality which we do not recognise or identify. We have redefined our world and our understanding according to "ego fears".
In these situations it is difficult to see past our own delusion, but believe me, if you equate the love of a woman or a man with the love of material objects you could do worse than seek professional help. I am not saying this as a put down, and ego will want to read it that way, I am saying it with compassion. You need to get in touch with your Self.
To use the argument that "All is One" in order to justify such a delusional idea that our transient ego desires are the same as "love" is pure sophistry by a clever mind. Ego will find any way it can to justify it's own perceived perfection. The contention would have to follow that we should love a cow-pat as much as we love our burger or our spouse, since to differentiate would be "conditional" and would create separation. We could go on to say that killing millions is fine because there is no such thing as death. Such arguments are clearly nonsense in the evolutionary plateaux we find ourselves in. If, however, I was still an earth-worm, I could be wrong. The cow-pat may be more desirable. As Einstein said, "it's all relative". Or was that Sylvia?
Howdy everyone... -lease excuse the morse code, but my keyboard is sick and the key next to 'o' isn't working. I thank you all for the discussion on love. I have been trying to understand it all myself of late, and your -ersonal views have hel-ed me to take a different view on what im feeing at the moment. Infatuation is a definite -art of what my fiance and I feel, but I wonder sometimes how another side of me 'knows' it is also quite different to anything else I have felt before. For the first time in my life I do not feel afraid to communicate my TRUE feelings, good or bad. to someone. In fact some of those things I am most ashamed of, my fiance finds attractive in me. It is certainly something I have never ex-erienced before. Before entering into this relationshi-, I asked for this -artnershi- to be one based on truth. I s-ecifically asked for the kind of relationshi-I wanted to take -art in, the kind of communication I wanted to take -lace. It seems the more I communicate my true feelings, the less fear I now ex-erience, and the more I acce-t myself, for myself. It seems that throughout this -ost, I have written all about 'I'. I have just realised as I write this, that for the very first time in my life, 'I' have fully acknowledged 'myself' for what I am. Now the work that 'we', my fiance and I, are meant to undertake in this lifetime, can really begin. I know I have much to learn with res-ect to s-irituality, es-ecially as I read through this forum. And yes, I am scared to voice my o-inion and my -ersonal view in case it is "wrong". What I do know is this is the closest I have come to feeling what I -ersonally understand to be unconditional love, not only between my fiance and myself, but towards everyone I meet. Im sorry for being so long-winded!!......THANK YOU for listening..........MAZ
hi! just getting ready to head down to Ooltewah, tn, love the "love" discussion and yes, Peggy, i did feel kinship with those wonderful people. it was marvelous how much they accomplished and their natural surroundings is/was awesome. i loved the rocky creek beds! Ravi we did hear of the bears and someone spotted one just ahead of us! they blocked the road with their vehicle and everyone was mad at them. guess they just got excited and ran off into the woods when they sighted the bear. personally, i wouldn't want to disturb them in anyway, heh! ok, friends, i'm on the road again and will check in later if possible! love and Namasté!
Ravi we did hear of the bears and someone spotted one just ahead of us! they blocked the road with their vehicle and everyone was mad at them. guess they just got excited and ran off into the woods when they sighted the bear. personally, i wouldn't want to disturb them in anyway, heh!
ok, friends, i'm on the road again and will check in later if possible! love and Namasté!
Hi all, I'm constantly struggling with the issue of love myself. You know, the thoughts that I am complete in and of myself make sense to me when I am alone. But I can't explain why it is so much easier to be happy and grateful when there is love in your life. I mean, what about that school of thought that says we are all divine and we are only here to experience that which we could not experience if it weren't for the illusion of being separate. So, if we're here to experience love and oneness, how can we do that without making a true connection to other people? I understand that we can only fully love people when we don't need to love them, because then we can freely choose to love them. But perhaps being in love produces a state that is more conducive to experiencing oneness with others. And then, being in my twenties, I sometimes feel like humans are biologically built to pass the species on.....so it feels like the biological and spiritual designs for mankind are in direct opposition. Like one part of you strongly needs a partner, and another part is telling you that you are complete. So are biology and spirituality essentially incompatible? How is physical love different from spiritual love? And ultimately doesn't everyone deep down inside crave love, that they are waiting for someone else to give them? Well folks, forgive my ignorant ramblings and sweet dreams to you all.
Carol, I'm glad that you discovered Cades Cove! Did you feel a sense of kinship with the people who had lived there? It really struck a chord with me.
Tonight I watched a movie on TNT called NUREMBERG. It is excellent and much of the writing was unusually insightful. The character of a young psychologist (who observed the men who were accused of war crimes) asked himself this question: What is evil? His answer was (paraphrased)that evil is the lack of empathy. Any comments?
The character of a young psychologist (who observed the men who were accused of war crimes) asked himself this question: What is evil? His answer was (paraphrased)that evil is the lack of empathy.
Any comments?
For me, love is impermanent because I have not reached a continuous state of enlightenment, I am not always merry and I am not always at peace. The last two are usually a choice that I make and have a definite correlation to my state of enlightenment (or lack of it). And, certainly, there is more to love than peace, merriment and light. That was an easy answer. As you know well, words fail. What are your own feelings on love and non-judgment? What do you think keeps people from posting here if they want to? Do you think that more should post? Is there anything that we can or "should" do to increase active participation?
What are your own feelings on love and non-judgment? What do you think keeps people from posting here if they want to? Do you think that more should post? Is there anything that we can or "should" do to increase active participation?
Hallo one and all, Geoff, you have told me what the book you opened said and what Whitney said. What do you think, feel or percieve about 'love'? Why does some one love an Olive Tree? What has the tree done to her/him? D2, yes, you are so right. That's why people 'fall' in love. 'Fall' implies a lowering of one's status. Why don't we say that we rise in the glorious uplifting togetherness of 'love'? I personally happen to think that the roots of 'love' are burried in 'giving'. For 'giving' and 'learning'(includes adapting) are the two basic processes at work in the universe. What does an astrophysicist think of that? Carol, have a good trip and leave the bears alone! Do lookin on: The Three Verbs of Being The Latitude Syndrome Your descriptions of love seem to assign a property of permanence to it. Should there be one? Chris, thank you for your perceptive post. If divinity is an integral part of one's being, then we are all united in it. If this be true, then 'love' is permanent and unassailable. Is it? See everybody writes about 'love', feels it lurking about and wants it to dawn upon them. It's there, but its illusive. We keep on looking for an 'attached' state of 'love'. Is there some such thing as 'pure love' or 'unattached love'? I get the feeling that many people want to read and post on the forum. Namaste
Geoff, you have told me what the book you opened said and what Whitney said. What do you think, feel or percieve about 'love'?
Why does some one love an Olive Tree? What has the tree done to her/him?
D2, yes, you are so right. That's why people 'fall' in love. 'Fall' implies a lowering of one's status. Why don't we say that we rise in the glorious uplifting togetherness of 'love'?
I personally happen to think that the roots of 'love' are burried in 'giving'. For 'giving' and 'learning'(includes adapting) are the two basic processes at work in the universe. What does an astrophysicist think of that?
Carol, have a good trip and leave the bears alone!
Do lookin on:
The Three Verbs of Being The Latitude Syndrome
Your descriptions of love seem to assign a property of permanence to it.
Should there be one?
Chris, thank you for your perceptive post.
If divinity is an integral part of one's being, then we are all united in it.
If this be true, then 'love' is permanent and unassailable. Is it?
See everybody writes about 'love', feels it lurking about and wants it to dawn upon them.
It's there, but its illusive. We keep on looking for an 'attached' state of 'love'.
Is there some such thing as 'pure love' or 'unattached love'?
I get the feeling that many people want to read and post on the forum.
Namaste
Phoenix, Just found a site you might be interested in. It displays Thangka paintings and mandalas. Click here. Enjoy.
I've enjoyed reading the replies to Ravi's question about what love is and what it isn't. By a curious turn of events, I happen to have for a short time in my possession a copy of Cave In The Snow. As usual, I opened it at "random" and this is what I read - While being like an "empty house" may seem desirable to a meditator, to the average person, brought up on the notion that passion and emotional involvement is what gives life its colour and verve, such a state could seem vapid and remote. Was being an "empty house" the same as being a "shell" of a person - cold and unfeeling? And what is the difference between detachment and being cut off from your emotions anyway? Tenzin Palmo, as might be expected, refuted all such insinuations. 'It's not a cold emptiness,' she stated emphatically, 'it's a warm spaciousness. It means that one is no longer involved in one's ephemeral emotions. One sees how people cause so much of their own suffering just by thinking that without having these strong emotions they're not real people. 'Why does one go into retreat,' she went on hotly. 'One goes into a retreat to understand who one really is and what the situation truly is. When one begins to understand oneself then one can truly understand others because we are all interelated. It is very difficult to understand others while one is still caught up in the turmoil of one's emotional involvement - because we're always interpreting others from the standpoint of our own needs. That's why, when you meet hermits who have really done a lot of retreat, say twenty-five years, they are not cold and distant. On the contrary. They are absolutely lovely people. You know that their love for you is totally without judgement because it doesn't rely on who you are or what you are doing, or how you treat them. It's totally impartial. It's just love. Whatever you did they'd still love you because they understand your predicament and in that understanding naturally arises love and compassion. It's not based on sentiment. It's not based on emotion. Sentimental love is very unstable, because it's based on feed-back and how good it makes you feel. That is not real love at all.' Richard, your post reminds me of a line from a movie (can't remember the title) about time-travel and how two teenage boys laid the foundation for a future "utopia" with the phrase "Be excellent to each other" or somethin like that. :)
While being like an "empty house" may seem desirable to a meditator, to the average person, brought up on the notion that passion and emotional involvement is what gives life its colour and verve, such a state could seem vapid and remote. Was being an "empty house" the same as being a "shell" of a person - cold and unfeeling? And what is the difference between detachment and being cut off from your emotions anyway? Tenzin Palmo, as might be expected, refuted all such insinuations. 'It's not a cold emptiness,' she stated emphatically, 'it's a warm spaciousness. It means that one is no longer involved in one's ephemeral emotions. One sees how people cause so much of their own suffering just by thinking that without having these strong emotions they're not real people. 'Why does one go into retreat,' she went on hotly. 'One goes into a retreat to understand who one really is and what the situation truly is. When one begins to understand oneself then one can truly understand others because we are all interelated. It is very difficult to understand others while one is still caught up in the turmoil of one's emotional involvement - because we're always interpreting others from the standpoint of our own needs. That's why, when you meet hermits who have really done a lot of retreat, say twenty-five years, they are not cold and distant. On the contrary. They are absolutely lovely people. You know that their love for you is totally without judgement because it doesn't rely on who you are or what you are doing, or how you treat them. It's totally impartial. It's just love. Whatever you did they'd still love you because they understand your predicament and in that understanding naturally arises love and compassion. It's not based on sentiment. It's not based on emotion. Sentimental love is very unstable, because it's based on feed-back and how good it makes you feel. That is not real love at all.' Richard, your post reminds me of a line from a movie (can't remember the title) about time-travel and how two teenage boys laid the foundation for a future "utopia" with the phrase "Be excellent to each other" or somethin like that. :)
Tenzin Palmo, as might be expected, refuted all such insinuations. 'It's not a cold emptiness,' she stated emphatically, 'it's a warm spaciousness. It means that one is no longer involved in one's ephemeral emotions. One sees how people cause so much of their own suffering just by thinking that without having these strong emotions they're not real people.
'Why does one go into retreat,' she went on hotly. 'One goes into a retreat to understand who one really is and what the situation truly is. When one begins to understand oneself then one can truly understand others because we are all interelated. It is very difficult to understand others while one is still caught up in the turmoil of one's emotional involvement - because we're always interpreting others from the standpoint of our own needs. That's why, when you meet hermits who have really done a lot of retreat, say twenty-five years, they are not cold and distant. On the contrary. They are absolutely lovely people. You know that their love for you is totally without judgement because it doesn't rely on who you are or what you are doing, or how you treat them. It's totally impartial. It's just love. Whatever you did they'd still love you because they understand your predicament and in that understanding naturally arises love and compassion. It's not based on sentiment. It's not based on emotion. Sentimental love is very unstable, because it's based on feed-back and how good it makes you feel. That is not real love at all.'
Richard, your post reminds me of a line from a movie (can't remember the title) about time-travel and how two teenage boys laid the foundation for a future "utopia" with the phrase "Be excellent to each other" or somethin like that. :)
My moments of gratitude seem to be more constant these days... and added another one when I read the most recent posts. I, too, like Olive trees! Blessings to you all!
~Wednesday, July 12, 2000~Q: Would it not be better to just leave things to Pure Potentiality rather than using the Law of Desire?A: This is of course the ideal, to surrender to Spirit and accept whatever happens in our life as being exactly what is required at that time. However, if we are not at a point where we can be that accepting, then we use the law of Desire. Desires can be fulfilled, transmuted, or transcended but they can never be suppressed. The key to having desires is always to be detached from their outcome, this is like giving nature a hint. We express our desire but at the same time say, "If there's something better, please send that instead". So, in a way, by being detached, we are expressing our opinion but ultimately leaving it to Pure Potentiality.www.chopra.com
Q: Would it not be better to just leave things to Pure Potentiality rather than using the Law of Desire?
A: This is of course the ideal, to surrender to Spirit and accept whatever happens in our life as being exactly what is required at that time. However, if we are not at a point where we can be that accepting, then we use the law of Desire. Desires can be fulfilled, transmuted, or transcended but they can never be suppressed. The key to having desires is always to be detached from their outcome, this is like giving nature a hint. We express our desire but at the same time say, "If there's something better, please send that instead". So, in a way, by being detached, we are expressing our opinion but ultimately leaving it to Pure Potentiality.www.chopra.com
thanks Richard and thank you, Peggy for the welcome to Tennessee. WOW! what a beautiful place. we spent the day at Cades Cove and this Floridian saw what she was missing living in the flatlands, heh! anyway just a quick note to say Hi to everyOne from Tn and next, i am meeting a friend i've communicated online with for 5 years, Dove Voice (Mary Anne), for the first time. Ooltawah, i think, as i don't have my note here. she is living in a mountain retreat with a Tantric Master in residence so i am really looking forward to it.Namasté friends!
anyway just a quick note to say Hi to everyOne from Tn and next, i am meeting a friend i've communicated online with for 5 years, Dove Voice (Mary Anne), for the first time. Ooltawah, i think, as i don't have my note here. she is living in a mountain retreat with a Tantric Master in residence so i am really looking forward to it.
Namasté friends!
Okay, time for everyone to get out for a long walk, sunshine, and fresh air. See what you see, hear what you hear, smell what there is...be nice to yourselves, each other, and therefore God. Peace, friends of light Namaste'
Peace, friends of light
Namaste'
The "Threefold Nature of Man".Spirit,soul,& body. Man is a spirit being, he has a soul & lives in a body.The spiritual man is the inner man, the hidden man of the heart.The soul consists of the mind,the will & the emotions.The body as we all know consists of the flesh.There are times when we have a desire in our heart to do certain things but our flesh has other plans and the desires of the flesh are so strong we can't resist.Relationships are a good example of how men in general allow their carnal or fleshly desires excercise dominion over them.One part of them, their spirit,the inner man, that hidden man of the heart wants to continue in his present relationship.But his flesh desires more.The flesh has unquenchable desires.It cannot be satisfied.A spiritually minded person learns to bring their flesh into subjection and not let it have dominion over the vessel.To be carnally minded is torment.Fasting is a good method, but not the only method to keep the body under.Also by meditating on carnal things does nothing more than strengthen & give life to the desires of the flesh.We tend to act out our most dominate thoughts.Those thoughts seek expression in the physical material world.Notice how in order to succeed in anything you must give it alot of thought & see yourself succeeding,then you will desire that success so strongly that you just have to have it.And we all know that desire is the starting point of all achievement.So give thought to spiritual or positive things so your desires will flow in the direction of those things your heart desires.Rather then meditating on having an affair with someone out of wedlock knowing the end result, which is grief, is more devistating long term than the initial pleasure of yielding to the flesh.Don't sabotage yourself by giving thought to something, deep down inside you know you really don't want to do.Because by meditating on it you feed that desire therbey making it almost imposible to resist.
The "Threefold Nature of Man".Spirit,soul,& body. Man is a spirit being, he has a soul & lives in a body.The spiritual man is the inner man, the hidden man of the heart.The soul consists of the mind,the will & the emotions.The body as we all know consists of the flesh.There are times when we have a desire in our heart to do certain things but our flesh has other plans but the desires of the flesh are so strong we can't resist.Relationships are a good example of how men in general allow their carnal or fleshly desires excercise dominion over them.One part of them, their spirit,the inner man, that hidden man of the heart wants to continue in his present relationship.But his flesh desires more.The flesh has unquenchable desires.It cannot be satisfied.A spiritually minded person learns to bring their flesh into subjection and not let it have dominion over the vessel.To be carnally minded is torment.Fasting is a good method, but not the only method to keep the body under.Also by meditating on carnal things does nothing more than strengthen & give life to the desires of the flesh.We tend to act out our most dominate thoughts.Those thoughts seek expression in the physical material world.Notice how in order to succeed in anything you must give it alot of thought & see yourself succeeding,then you will desire that success so strongly that you just have to have it.And we all know that desire is the starting point of all achievement.So give thought to spiritual or positive things so your desires will flow in the direction of those things your heart desires.Rather then meditating on having an affair with someone out of wedlock knowing the end result, which is grief, is more devistating long term than the initial pleasure of yielding to the flesh.Don't sabotage yourself by giving thought to something, deep down inside you know you really don't want to do.Because by meditating on it you feed that desire therbey making almost imposible to resist.
D2, I can't think of anyone that I had rather have birthday greetings from. Let there be peace between us. (Let's make it a gift to the kid who loves olive trees so much.) :-) I'm not "there" in the sense of remaining in an enlightened state. I am much too earth-bound. But I am "there" in that there is no more dependence on what the future may bring most of the time. I'm pleased to know that things are going well in your marriage. I had sensed that you are more at peace. Early in our marriage, Dave and I looked forward to the time when we would be like "old shoes" -- comfortable, familiar, dependable. It's okay to be scuffy but a little polish never hurts now and then. You have a very romantic spirit and that is part of the polish! I tried to find the piece from the end of the movie "The Corn is Green" for you but with no success. I haven't given up though. One thing that is good about our shadow-sides is that there are people who love us -- shadows and all! Learning to embrace our own shadows is quite a challenge. But that is where there is a lot of personal growth. I know that you already know all of this but it feels good to say it here. I wish you peace, merriment and light...
I'm not "there" in the sense of remaining in an enlightened state. I am much too earth-bound. But I am "there" in that there is no more dependence on what the future may bring most of the time.
I'm pleased to know that things are going well in your marriage. I had sensed that you are more at peace. Early in our marriage, Dave and I looked forward to the time when we would be like "old shoes" -- comfortable, familiar, dependable. It's okay to be scuffy but a little polish never hurts now and then. You have a very romantic spirit and that is part of the polish!
I tried to find the piece from the end of the movie "The Corn is Green" for you but with no success. I haven't given up though.
One thing that is good about our shadow-sides is that there are people who love us -- shadows and all! Learning to embrace our own shadows is quite a challenge. But that is where there is a lot of personal growth. I know that you already know all of this but it feels good to say it here.
I wish you peace, merriment and light...
Necesito información acerca de lugares donde pueda recuperarme,mi diagnóstico: úlcera esofágica,hernia hiatal y colon irritable. Realizo tratamiento dependiendo de medicación y continúo sin superación alguna.
I heard/was taught, "face the light and the shadows are always behind you". Works for me. Namaste' o buckaroos (Vaqueros) of the enlightenment trail.
Works for me.
Namaste' o buckaroos (Vaqueros) of the enlightenment trail.
I love "Olive Trees".
Prettig verjaardag (Happy birthday in Dutch) Pegs and don't choke on that piece of cake when you read this . . . ;-) Are we ever really there ? If we are then we are either fully enlightened or dead. You are definitely not the latter and congratulations on reaching the former, or... Just enjoy the ride, bumps and all. Peaks and valleys are everywhere and an integral part of the ride. Enjoy today's peak and be aware of and embrace the ride through the next valley. That is what I meant to Hadi and Geoff about shadows.
Are we ever really there ? If we are then we are either fully enlightened or dead. You are definitely not the latter and congratulations on reaching the former, or...
Just enjoy the ride, bumps and all. Peaks and valleys are everywhere and an integral part of the ride. Enjoy today's peak and be aware of and embrace the ride through the next valley.
That is what I meant to Hadi and Geoff about shadows.
Your question is a very important one. Do I love my wife or my projection of her ? Two years ago the answer would have been very different than what it is today. Love changes and grows only when we learn to first love and accept ourselves for who we are and where we are on our path. When we love a projection, we are in a state called infatuation (one I know VERY well). Infatuation is wonderful and dangerous and leads to all the states in your post. It is all powerful as infatuation leads us to do things for what we think is our endless love. It causes kings to abdicate thrones (Edward and Mrs. Simpson), crazy forum posters to move to Nashville for love (relax everyone, I'm talking about myself there), and in extreme cases death (Romeo and Juliet). When infatuation has its grip, it is a powerful thing. It looks like and feels like love. We feel energized by each other's presence but it is a chemical reaction over which we have no control because inside of us we feel something is missing. It can indeed lead to love, but with most things it takes time and knowledge that it is an infatuation and not love. I know you hate quotes, but perhaps Whitney Houston said it best, "learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all." Only when you are there can you love another and let them be who they are, rather than the projection of who you think they are. Or, perhaps when we realize that everybody is just doing the best they can at the time, we realize that there is really only one of us in the room. Sorry it got a bit longer than I intended... Cheers.
Love changes and grows only when we learn to first love and accept ourselves for who we are and where we are on our path. When we love a projection, we are in a state called infatuation (one I know VERY well).
Infatuation is wonderful and dangerous and leads to all the states in your post. It is all powerful as infatuation leads us to do things for what we think is our endless love. It causes kings to abdicate thrones (Edward and Mrs. Simpson), crazy forum posters to move to Nashville for love (relax everyone, I'm talking about myself there), and in extreme cases death (Romeo and Juliet).
When infatuation has its grip, it is a powerful thing. It looks like and feels like love. We feel energized by each other's presence but it is a chemical reaction over which we have no control because inside of us we feel something is missing.
It can indeed lead to love, but with most things it takes time and knowledge that it is an infatuation and not love.
I know you hate quotes, but perhaps Whitney Houston said it best, "learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all." Only when you are there can you love another and let them be who they are, rather than the projection of who you think they are.
Or, perhaps when we realize that everybody is just doing the best they can at the time, we realize that there is really only one of us in the room.
Sorry it got a bit longer than I intended... Cheers.
Geoff, by keeping one's face turned towards the light, they ignore their darkness and that is the worst thing that can happen. Ignoring the darkness is impossible, it only leads to lifetimes of running away from the dark. Without darkness or shadows, one cannot see true light, only the reflected light of those around you.
Without darkness or shadows, one cannot see true light, only the reflected light of those around you.
Happy Birthday Peggy!
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