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"Po-Tweep?!"
Cathy, Buddha was still married when he returned from his mission as well as before he set off. Tens of thousands of people followed him back into his home town. Tens of thousands more welcomed him with reverence and respect. But his wife walked up to him and slapped him in the face. The crowd were shocked. But Buddha laughed, "It's alright. She's very angry with me. I've been away for many years." If Moses, Noah, Abraham Mohammed and Deepak don't qualify, I would like to hear who your "models" are who were single and why these models in your "mind" are more valid as Masters? Why is there a need to "divide" them and "seperate" them as better or worse, authentic or fake? Are you not "attached" to a fictional "model" which is "unreal"? Are you not comparing real people with an "illusory" idea which you have composed from your "perceptions"? And were those perceptions not originally formed by the "collective"? Is it not the case that your model is essentially the "religious" model of Jesus, the Christ, the Son of God? People differ. All these Masters were only people. People who became Enlightened.
If Moses, Noah, Abraham Mohammed and Deepak don't qualify, I would like to hear who your "models" are who were single and why these models in your "mind" are more valid as Masters? Why is there a need to "divide" them and "seperate" them as better or worse, authentic or fake? Are you not "attached" to a fictional "model" which is "unreal"? Are you not comparing real people with an "illusory" idea which you have composed from your "perceptions"? And were those perceptions not originally formed by the "collective"? Is it not the case that your model is essentially the "religious" model of Jesus, the Christ, the Son of God?
People differ. All these Masters were only people. People who became Enlightened.
Hello,I am an ardent fan of Sir Deepak Chopra's teaching and always had an interest in the amazing field of spirituality and the queer relationship of Body and Mind.I came across your book "Ageless Body and Timeless Mind",which really gave me new perspective of my inner self,and a new insight.I want to read more about the subject and any new theory or any stuff relating to it.May God Bless YOu.Dr.Nikhat
Cathy, I'm not too interested in measuring one Master against the other. They all sing the same tune in their own way. Perhaps Jesus wasn't as smart. Perhaps he went raging on about it like a madman and ended up being crucified. how smart is that? Perhaps the wisest ones are the ones we never hear about. The ones who use the knowledge instead of talking about it.
Chris, I'm not sure what in my earlier post you are contending, or whether you are contending anything. Certainly I agree with you that relationships are helpful for our growth. However, the difficulties I was talking about were really addressing the question of the single "Master". I was talking about the Master and the "devotee". While I would acknowledge that you are a student of spirituality I think you would agree that you do not qualify as a Master or a devotee, yet. A devotee by defenition devotes their life to a cause, a belief or person. Also I was talking about the kind of relationship that one could compare with a marriage. The kind of relationship where your intimate life and your day to day routines are dependent and tangled with that of the other. A relationship which is already established, where children and shared responsibilities are involved. Again, I do not think the relationships you have had, or are having, qualify. I essentially think of you, actually, as a single man to begin with. Even if you are in a relationship I doubt that you even co-habit. If someone is living a normal life and is in such a dependent relationship and they have a mystical experience, which is always a life changing experience, then that person will find it hard from then on with wife or husband. With lover and family. The Unity experience changes you so dramatically that to your intimate friends you seem strange, changed and sometimes mad. Your burining desire to find out more and to help the world will be difficult because it will not be part of the contract you had already established. There are some success stories but they are rare.
Also I was talking about the kind of relationship that one could compare with a marriage. The kind of relationship where your intimate life and your day to day routines are dependent and tangled with that of the other. A relationship which is already established, where children and shared responsibilities are involved. Again, I do not think the relationships you have had, or are having, qualify. I essentially think of you, actually, as a single man to begin with. Even if you are in a relationship I doubt that you even co-habit. If someone is living a normal life and is in such a dependent relationship and they have a mystical experience, which is always a life changing experience, then that person will find it hard from then on with wife or husband. With lover and family. The Unity experience changes you so dramatically that to your intimate friends you seem strange, changed and sometimes mad. Your burining desire to find out more and to help the world will be difficult because it will not be part of the contract you had already established. There are some success stories but they are rare.
The Magician already knows which card you're going to pick. The choice is an illusion.
J
We are definitely talking past each other, to. Too many threads.
Then you apply today's "Law"..........the "Law of Detachment".........release to the Akash. Ahhhhhhhhhh Sooooooooooooooo?
In case no one noticed, I'm functioning at level three. (L)
Karen I guess I missed the "what you meant" post. As far as voting..............as with a thousand mile journey.........it BEGINS with the first step.That's how I "see" young people and voting. It gets them used to the idea that that is how it's supposed to work (here in this country) as far as "changing" things, and hopefully will get them interested (and off their asses) to raise hell with their congressman/woman to knock off the bullshit.
As far as voting..............as with a thousand mile journey.........it BEGINS with the first step.
That's how I "see" young people and voting. It gets them used to the idea that that is how it's supposed to work (here in this country) as far as "changing" things, and hopefully will get them interested (and off their asses) to raise hell with their congressman/woman to knock off the bullshit.
I don't know about other areas, but I do know that there are still towns around that a black person better not be in after sundown.
Karen, if you are referring to my last post about "cop out", I left it "out there" for us to consider as well. I personally feel that an apology would be in order to African-American people, and especially Native Americans for past treatment and behavior towards them.By "reparations", I'm talking about a FOCUS of whatever it takes to bring conditions and opportunities up to standards that most of us "white folk" have."We" have been improving I grant you...........but Geeeeeeeeez........200 years?
By "reparations", I'm talking about a FOCUS of whatever it takes to bring conditions and opportunities up to standards that most of us "white folk" have.
"We" have been improving I grant you...........but Geeeeeeeeez........200 years?
This is what I meant: "BTW, I don't look at calling a spade a spade as pessimistic, and hopefully it'll "move" people to do something WITH their optimism. (Hint)" I'm slow these days because I'm definitely getting mixed messages from your posts--go vote, but the powers that be don't listen anyway.
What're you hinting at it? I need plain language! :-)
The other item of interest is something one of your leaders said about the aboriginal situation that reminded me of a cop-out we use here in the states when he was asked "what's wrong with apologizing, and making some reparations"...... He said: "Why should we now apologize for what other generations did"?
He said: "Why should we now apologize for what other generations did"?
Namaste'Geoff ever read "Mutant Message Down Under"? Great life story of a person's experiences down there, "coincidences" and "Dreamtime".You're definitely a crazy bunch (at least as depicted on/by Alby Mangels).I'm curious about how you're going to settle on a flag. They covered the animal kingdom down there for momento figurines, and some of the proposed flags depict them as well.I think you need something a little more inspiring than a yellow kangaroo with a green background, don't you?
Geoff ever read "Mutant Message Down Under"? Great life story of a person's experiences down there, "coincidences" and "Dreamtime".
You're definitely a crazy bunch (at least as depicted on/by Alby Mangels).
I'm curious about how you're going to settle on a flag. They covered the animal kingdom down there for momento figurines, and some of the proposed flags depict them as well.
I think you need something a little more inspiring than a yellow kangaroo with a green background, don't you?
to, if I spread my optimism any wider and deeper for any longer, you'll all be in need of large shovels. :-) Probably already are. Richard: yes, Vonnegut! Geoff, one of the PBS episodes addressed reconciliation. It seems a painful process for both sides as presented. I'm going to enjoy the Dream Time stories...
Richard: yes, Vonnegut!
Geoff, one of the PBS episodes addressed reconciliation. It seems a painful process for both sides as presented. I'm going to enjoy the Dream Time stories...
Quote of the day: "People with opinions just go around bothering one another" - Buddha :)
"People with opinions just go around bothering one another" - Buddha
:)
Greetings Ken, From the 'feel' of your message, I hope your individual mortal circuitry continues for many more years. :) To me, the greatest 'accomplishment' is waking yourself up and maybe helping a few others to do likewise ...
From the 'feel' of your message, I hope your individual mortal circuitry continues for many more years. :)
To me, the greatest 'accomplishment' is waking yourself up and maybe helping a few others to do likewise ...
Hi Karen, I've often wondered how much people around the world know about the land 'downunder' ... many seem to think we all have kangaroos i our backyards ... :) Actually, one of the more interesting/divisive issues here at the moment is the idea of 'reconciliation' between the aboriginals and us 'whiteys'. As with the U.S. and the Native Americans, there has been a tendency to de-value their traditional beliefs and way-of-life and impose our supposedly 'superior' culture onto them ... with some very sad results ... I personally find the Aboriginal dreamtime stories fascinating and often wonder what their lives would have been like if England hadn't decided Australia was a great place to send convicts for stealing a loaf of bread. We often joke that most of us have descended from convicts ... :) If you want to read some of these dreamtime stories ... Dream Time Stories Enjoy.
I've often wondered how much people around the world know about the land 'downunder' ... many seem to think we all have kangaroos i our backyards ... :)
Actually, one of the more interesting/divisive issues here at the moment is the idea of 'reconciliation' between the aboriginals and us 'whiteys'. As with the U.S. and the Native Americans, there has been a tendency to de-value their traditional beliefs and way-of-life and impose our supposedly 'superior' culture onto them ... with some very sad results ...
I personally find the Aboriginal dreamtime stories fascinating and often wonder what their lives would have been like if England hadn't decided Australia was a great place to send convicts for stealing a loaf of bread. We often joke that most of us have descended from convicts ... :)
If you want to read some of these dreamtime stories ...
Dream Time Stories
Enjoy.
Kilgore Trout? Kurt Vonnegut?--scratched a real dusty corner of the memory/mind bin. If that's wrong, no surprise. If right, that's 25-30 old recollection. Whew. Ah relationships!! Today before I left work a co-worker said I ought to get a pet. I said, "no way". He and others said why, I replied. Houses, pets, and girlfriend/spouse are great ideas for having one's free time sucked out of them. I thought I would leave those things for the better qualified, and continue to goof off and waste time. I chortled with glee, and scampered off. Everyone, really ought to vote..many lives are lost by people the world over, for this privelege/right. I registered myself to vote in the War (RVN), have voted every election since. Including, when I lived in Europe. I have yet to have voted for someone who won. Refusing to vote for the "lesser of two evils". I vote for writeins. I voted for Mickey Mouse one year, native born citizen, over 35 y/o, no felony convictions, etc. Or lots of different Parties on the ballot. But I never vote for the national party--Demicans/Republicats..they are just two hands of the same Demon folded in prayer, that the electorate will continue to not notice. YipesD! enough Richard! Namaste'
Ah relationships!! Today before I left work a co-worker said I ought to get a pet. I said, "no way". He and others said why, I replied. Houses, pets, and girlfriend/spouse are great ideas for having one's free time sucked out of them. I thought I would leave those things for the better qualified, and continue to goof off and waste time. I chortled with glee, and scampered off.
Everyone, really ought to vote..many lives are lost by people the world over, for this privelege/right. I registered myself to vote in the War (RVN), have voted every election since. Including, when I lived in Europe. I have yet to have voted for someone who won. Refusing to vote for the "lesser of two evils". I vote for writeins. I voted for Mickey Mouse one year, native born citizen, over 35 y/o, no felony convictions, etc. Or lots of different Parties on the ballot. But I never vote for the national party--Demicans/Republicats..they are just two hands of the same Demon folded in prayer, that the electorate will continue to not notice. YipesD! enough Richard! Namaste'
Franz Kafka once wrote, "You need not do anything, except to sit at your table and listen, you need not even listen just learn to become quiet and still and solitary, the world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.
hi R! :)dear Ken - always choose life!
dear Ken - always choose life!
Young people voting or participating!I'm laughing at your comment about me being pessimistic.Quite the contrary, as anyone I come in contact is PUSHED to go vote and start participating.BTW, I don't look at calling a spade a spade as pessimistic, and hopefully it'll "move" people to do something WITH their optimism. (Hint)
I'm laughing at your comment about me being pessimistic.
Quite the contrary, as anyone I come in contact is PUSHED to go vote and start participating.
BTW, I don't look at calling a spade a spade as pessimistic, and hopefully it'll "move" people to do something WITH their optimism. (Hint)
You'll be irrelevant as long as you allow yourself to fulfill that role. Ain't that what "it" says?
My memory is that some changes come about if there are enough voices. I won't argue that the underlying structure of corporate control only shifts slightly in the sands, but neither am I as pessimistic as you. I still believe in sending out the positive vibes as much as possible. Do you think what you're saying inspires any young people to vote or participate? I'm not berating you, to, you know that, but "discouraging words" have been so prevalent the last 25 years that I'm surprised anyone votes!
"our voices are irrelevant" should be expounded on. Their irrevelant up to the point where "they'll" do WHATEVER is necessary to get re-elected, so "they" get to keep playing the "game".
Their irrevelant up to the point where "they'll" do WHATEVER is necessary to get re-elected, so "they" get to keep playing the "game".
Namaste' I hope that Cathy's and Hadi's current dialogue are helpint someone's question sometime back about finding their "soulmate".
I hope that Cathy's and Hadi's current dialogue are helpint someone's question sometime back about finding their "soulmate".
Karen, sorry..........the "established order" (Executive Orders) are already in place. "We'll" just build more prisons.To say that "we" have a democracy is a farce at this point of time, when only 50% of the eligible voters participate; most being the older generations, and the young voters thinking their votes don't matter anyway. Which is true at this point.When the new politicians that are elected soon get assimilated in the prevailing Corporate/Special Interest money game, our "voices" are irrelevant.
To say that "we" have a democracy is a farce at this point of time, when only 50% of the eligible voters participate; most being the older generations, and the young voters thinking their votes don't matter anyway.
Which is true at this point.
When the new politicians that are elected soon get assimilated in the prevailing Corporate/Special Interest money game, our "voices" are irrelevant.
Kilgore Trout?
Robert Hughes.
Never fear! There are signs all around that "da revolution" is coming. Again. It's re-cycle time. Today I saw a flyer posted that seeks performers and composers of "socially and politically conscious music" that is spiritual, but not religious. It condemns our greedy U.S. consumer society. Looks like there will be another Seeger, another Baez, and it is usually the students and artists who appear first when the fabled winds of change begin to blow. Of course, you may not like the revolution either! ;-)
Our PBS aired some interesting hours on Australia as a prelude to the Olympics. I've taped, but not watched all yet. Found quite a few similarities between Oz and the U.S. to talk over with my Oz friends here--like your observation about the males and sports! :-) There was a segment about Melbourne, too, highlightings its differences with Sydney. Now if I could just remember the name of the author of The Fatal Shore who also hosted the shows!
Having had a few mcroseconds to re-assess my position ... you may as well tune into the olympics as there is bound to be some footage of the Australian landscape which is quite breathtaking ... or so I'm told ... :)
Hi Richard, Yes, that brainteaser 'got' me when I heard it, that's why I posted it. :) BTW, a bit of a typo - should read "the border of California & Arizonia" ... You'll be pleased to know the Olympics starts here tomorrow. Well, not exactly here since I live in Melbourne and the Olympics is in Sydney. Once upon a time, when was a sports adddict, I would have been glued to the telly for a couple of weeks. Nowadays, it's a bit of a yawn and honestly if I didn't have a few 'unawakened' friends I probly wouldn't watch it. Concepts like 'national pride' and competition somehow seem a bit lame to me these days. Hope I haven't offended anyone - actually if you're a male in Australia and you're not into your sport people wonder what's wrong with you ... it's considered heresy ... :) Actually, the one interesting aspect of the whole olympics has been the torch relay round the country - it has fired up some sense of 'community spirit' but it does seem to me a trifle inadequate as a basis for any real ongoing 'spirit' if it centres on an event that occurs once every 44 years (we last had the olympics in Melbourne in 1956) ... just a few idle thoughts as I sit here ... one final thought ... I found a piece of writing the other day called The Way To The Light ... interesting reading - supposedly channeled through a Canberra woman in 1986 ... anyone who's interested may like to click here ... Have a nice day and good luck to all the competitors. May the team with the best chemist win ... :)
Yes, that brainteaser 'got' me when I heard it, that's why I posted it. :) BTW, a bit of a typo - should read "the border of California & Arizonia" ...
You'll be pleased to know the Olympics starts here tomorrow. Well, not exactly here since I live in Melbourne and the Olympics is in Sydney. Once upon a time, when was a sports adddict, I would have been glued to the telly for a couple of weeks. Nowadays, it's a bit of a yawn and honestly if I didn't have a few 'unawakened' friends I probly wouldn't watch it. Concepts like 'national pride' and competition somehow seem a bit lame to me these days. Hope I haven't offended anyone - actually if you're a male in Australia and you're not into your sport people wonder what's wrong with you ... it's considered heresy ... :)
Actually, the one interesting aspect of the whole olympics has been the torch relay round the country - it has fired up some sense of 'community spirit' but it does seem to me a trifle inadequate as a basis for any real ongoing 'spirit' if it centres on an event that occurs once every 44 years (we last had the olympics in Melbourne in 1956) ... just a few idle thoughts as I sit here ... one final thought ... I found a piece of writing the other day called The Way To The Light ... interesting reading - supposedly channeled through a Canberra woman in 1986 ... anyone who's interested may like to click here ...
Have a nice day and good luck to all the competitors. May the team with the best chemist win ... :)
HADI-- I see that it can work both ways....but Buddha, I believe, was married while he was still a prince--that is before he felt compelled to seek enlightenment...I'm not sure about that but, I think that's the case. As for the modern sages you mentioned, while I agree that they are wise, I don't know that they are at the level of say, Buddha or Jesus?? This is not to say that they aren't or won't one day be---but those I've read about that would be at stage 7 going by Deepak's levels, are not married....and I imagine they see no point or no need for a singular type love relationship?? Someone in this forum once spoke about "special" love relationships and how that fit or didn't with unconditional love and acceptance.... Peace! Cathy
I have been studying the religions of the world (all that I could find ,at least) I find a spiritual consanguinity ,a confluency, a one-ness that I dont seem to be able to discuss with my accqaintances. This represents over fifty years of study,and all that I find that I have accomplshed is to be instrumental in saving a couple of thousand mortal lives ,in my work. In my 75th year I keep wondering why the infinite keeps this individual mortal circuitry going. I know that there is something left that is for this incarnation to accomplish. Do you have any suggestions on finding ones major goal to achieve in this mortal round ,so to speak, I have read most of Deepaks books and many other seers as;Yogananda,Ghandhi,The Upanishads, the Christian beliefs, some of the Vedas, American seers such as R.W.Emerson ,H.D.Thoreau and really many others of all ethnicities that were available. I am firmly grounded in belief as an entirety am but a part of this infinite one-ness. I am alone and really have no big reason to continue this mortality at this time . I do feel there must be a multiplicity of reasons for this continuence,at this time. I do agree with Jesus assertion that "who would be chiefest of all should become the least of all and servant of all" But I feel that I must find my true mortal accomplishment to be done now. If anyone on your staff has a suggestion to offer I would be more than pleased to hear. Thank you so much to whomever has taken the time to read this. Ken Carlson ( I call myself satya das because we are all ,that) carlson@webryders,com
Interesting.I would like to say that undoubtedly two people can travel down the same road and discover enlightenment together. However, all cynicism aside, I haven't seen many couples find a common path, let alone the Path. It sounds like it would be a major accomplishment, one worth wishing for...if wishing weren't such a reflection of ego! ; )
I would like to say that undoubtedly two people can travel down the same road and discover enlightenment together. However, all cynicism aside, I haven't seen many couples find a common path, let alone the Path.
It sounds like it would be a major accomplishment, one worth wishing for...if wishing weren't such a reflection of ego! ; )
i was wondering what mr chupra's ideas were on the usage of hallucinagenic substances and what his views were on the subject.
Interesting observations Hadi. In my own experience, it is through the mirror of close relationships that the greatest development has occurred in my life. Relationships can be a wonderful catalyst for personal development as long as one approaches them from a place of wanting to grow and learn instead of control and need.
Richard, I've been called worse things.
Karen: I doubt I'll be the first. ;)
Deepak Chopra is not single. Wayne Dyer is not single. Buddha was not single. Mohammed was not single. Moses, Noah, Abraham, I don't think any of them were. There are many historical scholars who would contend that Jesus of Nazareth was not single. Only the church writes him so. That said, the general perception is correct. Many of the masters are or have been single. Even more devotees are single than masters. What is important to understand is that it is not a requirement to be single. One comes to realise that one "is" single. One is a-l-one. Always. This doesn't stop us from having relationships, companionship, friendship and love. The problem arises in the first instance when your partner or spouse or friend, they don't have the same interest for enlightenment, for clarity, for ego death, whatever. They're not on the same journey and it is very difficult to simply bring them along. It takes a special kind of relationship, a special kind of lover for that accomodation to happen, and those relationships are rare in the present world. Caroline Myss talks quite candidly about how few relationships are able to survive the transformation of tribal man to planetary man. Of Sleeper to awakened. If the partner remains asleep, it makes it almost impossible for the Master or the Apprentice to move forward into the unknown. If the husband, wife, lover, are asleep, they would require much care and attention. Inertia develops, and with it the danger of falling back into the dream. Conflict and frustration begin and this is like the slide down the ravine back into Ego world. Eventually, however, the pull of Spirit becomes too strong. Realising this the devotee, the seeker, she or he decides to move on. They are drawn to like minded groups. Develop new bonds and eventually part from one of their major attachments. Usually they remain single, for then they are free. But it doesn't have to be like that. It could be Tantric. Many paths, One Way. Namaste'.
That said, the general perception is correct. Many of the masters are or have been single. Even more devotees are single than masters. What is important to understand is that it is not a requirement to be single. One comes to realise that one "is" single. One is a-l-one. Always.
This doesn't stop us from having relationships, companionship, friendship and love. The problem arises in the first instance when your partner or spouse or friend, they don't have the same interest for enlightenment, for clarity, for ego death, whatever. They're not on the same journey and it is very difficult to simply bring them along. It takes a special kind of relationship, a special kind of lover for that accomodation to happen, and those relationships are rare in the present world. Caroline Myss talks quite candidly about how few relationships are able to survive the transformation of tribal man to planetary man. Of Sleeper to awakened. If the partner remains asleep, it makes it almost impossible for the Master or the Apprentice to move forward into the unknown. If the husband, wife, lover, are asleep, they would require much care and attention. Inertia develops, and with it the danger of falling back into the dream. Conflict and frustration begin and this is like the slide down the ravine back into Ego world. Eventually, however, the pull of Spirit becomes too strong. Realising this the devotee, the seeker, she or he decides to move on. They are drawn to like minded groups. Develop new bonds and eventually part from one of their major attachments. Usually they remain single, for then they are free. But it doesn't have to be like that. It could be Tantric.
Many paths, One Way.
Namaste'.
Hi Carol, Karen, Hadi, T.O., Geoff, et al.: Geoff, Honest, I Richard proved to be a "trout", and bit the teaser. But I was released, as I do to all my trout friends. Karen, keep after all these guys--sometimes the "enlightenment" stings the eyes around here. Hadi, your are a real "unit". T.O., are you sure you are not a Libertarian or Bakunin/Kropotkinite? Namaste' Love all and Wish Only Well (I swiped that)
Geoff, Honest, I Richard proved to be a "trout", and bit the teaser.
But I was released, as I do to all my trout friends.
Karen, keep after all these guys--sometimes the "enlightenment" stings the eyes around here.
Hadi, your are a real "unit".
T.O., are you sure you are not a Libertarian or Bakunin/Kropotkinite?
Namaste' Love all and Wish Only Well (I swiped that)
HE who seeks is not SHE who seeks. In other words, you are not me, nor I, you. My interpretation is that you cannot teach me. I will have to experience for myself.
I said that (what you quoted) is my thought, my viewpoint. If and when I experience anything that changes that thought, you'll be the first to know.
Hey there, Terry, Big Brother has been here all along. Keeping you close. Karen, you said "that the last piece of what we sometimes see as a puzzle will not be fitted in until we experience death"... I have already experienced death. I have experienced the other side. I have been beyond this plane. That is the aim of he who seeks. It is the ultimate Truth.
Karen, you said "that the last piece of what we sometimes see as a puzzle will not be fitted in until we experience death"...
I have already experienced death. I have experienced the other side. I have been beyond this plane. That is the aim of he who seeks. It is the ultimate Truth.
In re-reading, it looks like I need to get my "spell check" checked. Ha! Coming soon (Hadi): BIG BROTHER!
Coming soon (Hadi):
"..........Corporations, that could care less about YOU." (sorry)
The reason I started that out with "being amazed by the women in our society" is that women are usually so much more "intuitive" than men.It's when we're in touch with that "God Sense", 6th sense (intuition) that we're supposed to be able to "see" a BIGGER picture of/on/at the physical plane.It goes along with SO MUCH more that we've been "hynotized" by.The current "tire" fiasco is another example.Those nameless, faceless people in government, in Corporatios, that weld so much power, and could less about YOU.
It's when we're in touch with that "God Sense", 6th sense (intuition) that we're supposed to be able to "see" a BIGGER picture of/on/at the physical plane.
It goes along with SO MUCH more that we've been "hynotized" by.
The current "tire" fiasco is another example.
Those nameless, faceless people in government, in Corporatios, that weld so much power, and could less about YOU.
Namaste' The "KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR" syndrome. I continue to be amazed at the women in our society (U.S) and how they let their emotions control them and make decisions accordingly. This has to do with the political goings on at the moment. Apparently once again they are "going for" the bullshit put out by one particular party…………………."We'll take care of everything"………that litany of give away programs that only builds more bureaucracy and control in Washington. Ladies and gentlemen, wake up. With every program, you loose more of your "freedom", both physically and spiritually. I'll just give you an example of what's going on. I'm 63, and hell yes I want Medicare to pick up my medical, and especially, prescription drugs. I'm on my way out and those that are left can pick up the tab. It'll save me all that effort of watching how I spend my money in retirement and I won't have to "shop around" for a plan that would fit my needs. Besides that, I want to leave as much as I can for my kids. (Got the scenario?) Pharmaceutical Industry. (This is happening right now) Good-------------let the Feds pick up the tab so we won't have anyone, or bunch of someones, complaining, and every time they increase how much and what they'll cover will justify us in raising prices again-----------you know---------inflation (COL). There are even more ramifications to that scenario, and that's just one "area" where WE are being taken for a ride. As with our own spiritual journey, it is on "US"----individually, and any program coming out of Washington that doesn't place responsibility back on the individual in some fashion is WRONG. I am truly reminded of Pinnochio(sp?) and the symbolism represented by the children being turned into donkeys and being led away to slaughter.
The "KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR" syndrome.
I continue to be amazed at the women in our society (U.S) and how they let their emotions control them and make decisions accordingly.
This has to do with the political goings on at the moment.
Apparently once again they are "going for" the bullshit put out by one particular party…………………."We'll take care of everything"………that litany of give away programs that only builds more bureaucracy and control in Washington.
Ladies and gentlemen, wake up.
With every program, you loose more of your "freedom", both physically and spiritually.
I'll just give you an example of what's going on.
I'm 63, and hell yes I want Medicare to pick up my medical, and especially, prescription drugs. I'm on my way out and those that are left can pick up the tab. It'll save me all that effort of watching how I spend my money in retirement and I won't have to "shop around" for a plan that would fit my needs. Besides that, I want to leave as much as I can for my kids. (Got the scenario?)
Pharmaceutical Industry. (This is happening right now)
Good-------------let the Feds pick up the tab so we won't have anyone, or bunch of someones, complaining, and every time they increase how much and what they'll cover will justify us in raising prices again-----------you know---------inflation (COL).
There are even more ramifications to that scenario, and that's just one "area" where WE are being taken for a ride.
As with our own spiritual journey, it is on "US"----individually, and any program coming out of Washington that doesn't place responsibility back on the individual in some fashion is WRONG.
I am truly reminded of Pinnochio(sp?) and the symbolism represented by the children being turned into donkeys and being led away to slaughter.
(Geoff): Sanity..........in the midst of insanity! (RD)
Sanity..........in the midst of insanity! (RD)
hello Kiran - have you visited Osho's Multiversity in Pune?
Just a curious thought from my perspective - my 'idea' of 'success' is to no longer have any concepts like 'success' in my consciousness ... I'm starting to wonder if I'm just crazy ... if I am then I'm loving every minute of it ... :)
I just finshed reading "Seven Spiritual Laws of Success". It was great and seemed like a simplified summary of the Bhagwat Geeta. Anyway what remains for each of us to do now is to define our idea of SUCCESS. That done then everything will fall in place
Brainteaser of the day: If a plane crashes on the border or California and Arizona, where do you bury the survivors? Answer: click here Okay, hands up all those who got it. :)
If a plane crashes on the border or California and Arizona, where do you bury the survivors?
Answer: click here
Okay, hands up all those who got it. :)
<> HADI--no I didn't buy this...was trying to see how it could be so, and was noting that all the masters seem to be single?? The Thomas Hora book I mentioned which is very good, however did talk about life as we know it with all the ups and downs etc...being because of self-confirmatory ideas--which is all the ups and downs that we *experience* which confirms the notion of us as individuals in separate bodies...he talked of God being spirit and therefore to know him was a spritual happening, a realization vs an experience...and so the more involved in experience we become, the harder it becomes to transcend it...I think I'm expressing this right! I've decided that one can experience details and enjoy them...and let them go. Also, letting go of judgment of an experience as good or bad is key---anyway, I am befuddled at times, but feel my understanding is not all that bad ;-) Cathy
HADI--Thanks for your post...I'm *thinking* about it ;-) I recognize that I am at the end of the usefulness of thinking about things. Though questioning things has served me well, and brought me to this point of being open to wonderful possibilities. I don't know what it means to listen with my heart, quite honestly :-) I mean, I have feelings, of course--though that's different than what you're talking about... About the pain embracing thing...it was in CWG, and I guess I didn't explain it well, because it made great sense when I read it :-) Something about getting to a point where one doe not have preferences about what happens in Life because you understand that you have created the moment perfectly for what you want or are ready to learn etc...so one does not bemoan the flat tire or the injury or whatever *negative* that comes your way, knowing it is *perfect*---though this is still different than the notion that things can be truly *perfect* if right awareness is acheived---in my linear way of thinking :-) Any suggestions on this heart business? Meditation, I know about, and am trying to get in the habit (I am not one to have a schedule, and with the kids, it's a bit harder--can be done--but more distractions!) Thanks for sharing! Namaste! Cathy
{{Frank}}, you've been missed. I bow. I embrace. Namaste'.
I bow. I embrace. Namaste'.
Cathy: I found your post about the paradoxes interesting and want to comment on it, but I feel it would take up a lot of space and I don't want to hog the screen. So I'll try to keep it brief. I would say, though, that you are not understanding these teachings fully, and are interpretting a great deal too literally. The language of Religion and Mysticism is metaphore, parable, allegory. This is not a shortcoming of yours. The problem is "words". Our language is too clumsy, brutal and inadequate to really capture or relate the subtleties of the teachings. I think Jesus lost his temper for many reasons. First and foremost he was human, relating to other humans. However he was not like his fellow men and while getting angry is common amongst men then as now, no Jewish man back then would ever have made such a public display of his anger towards the Pharisees or towards the Merchants. These were powerful people. Important people. So what Jesus did was unusual. Out of the norm. Strange. And it was done for the effect, not the publicity and not out of spontaneous rage. It was a public display that the public would sit up and notice. It wasn't his anger that they noticed, but the principles and standards he brought into the public consciousness, and his anger and message was not for the benefit of those he raged at, it was for those who "observed". Two thousand years later, we're still talking about it. Secondly, there is nothing forbidden or "wrong" about anger. It is a great misconception that Spiritualists and spirituality is against anger or is not capable of anger. This is the "popular image", but it is not the truth. It is not The Way. Because The way is "the truth". Anger is an expression of energy. Spirit IS energy. Therefor anger is an expression of Spirit. Anger is not hatred. These are two different things. Hatred is anger with attachment. Anger is the "force" not the motive. But the energy can be used by hatred, which is the domain of Ego. When Ego is your center, which means you are not centered, then the energy at your disposal is easily mis-spent. But when you are centered, when you operate from your Higher Self, the energy is "Intelligent". As for the contradictions about "embracing and detaching", there are many paths to the summit, but there is only One Way. Do not try and understand these things through the "words". Do not attempt to solve the Mystery with your mind, or the intellect. Explore the Mystery with your heart and you will find there is no contradiction between the detached quality and the embracing of life. The "words" tend to be too literal by their nature. The words get in The Way. There is nothing wrong with sex, either. With intimacy. Rather, it is encouraged. There is nothing "wrong" with anything, as long as it is done with Love. Finally, no Mystic tells you to embrace pain. That is nonsense. That is totally against God/ God is "bliss". What bliss is there in pain? Only the Church and the state tells you to embrace pain. Tells you you are a sinner as soon as you are born into the world. Tells you and teaches you about punishment. If there is pain you need to look at it and transform it. If you cannot transform it, walk away. Do you really think detachment means "no cuddles"? No intimacy? Really you misunderstand very much. But you are not alone. All the brotherhoods thought that's what was meant too. All the invisible college. Have you not observed Royalty? the Pope? the Bishops? They all used Mysticism to get and maintain their power (even though they called Him "heretic"), but they misunderstood so much and became loveless. Dark. Black Magicians. Now the Pope is saying "sorry". Perhaps the Grim Reaper has whispered in his ear, "One is coming". Hmmmm...
I think Jesus lost his temper for many reasons. First and foremost he was human, relating to other humans. However he was not like his fellow men and while getting angry is common amongst men then as now, no Jewish man back then would ever have made such a public display of his anger towards the Pharisees or towards the Merchants. These were powerful people. Important people. So what Jesus did was unusual. Out of the norm. Strange. And it was done for the effect, not the publicity and not out of spontaneous rage. It was a public display that the public would sit up and notice. It wasn't his anger that they noticed, but the principles and standards he brought into the public consciousness, and his anger and message was not for the benefit of those he raged at, it was for those who "observed". Two thousand years later, we're still talking about it.
Secondly, there is nothing forbidden or "wrong" about anger. It is a great misconception that Spiritualists and spirituality is against anger or is not capable of anger. This is the "popular image", but it is not the truth. It is not The Way. Because The way is "the truth". Anger is an expression of energy. Spirit IS energy. Therefor anger is an expression of Spirit. Anger is not hatred. These are two different things. Hatred is anger with attachment. Anger is the "force" not the motive. But the energy can be used by hatred, which is the domain of Ego. When Ego is your center, which means you are not centered, then the energy at your disposal is easily mis-spent. But when you are centered, when you operate from your Higher Self, the energy is "Intelligent".
As for the contradictions about "embracing and detaching", there are many paths to the summit, but there is only One Way. Do not try and understand these things through the "words". Do not attempt to solve the Mystery with your mind, or the intellect. Explore the Mystery with your heart and you will find there is no contradiction between the detached quality and the embracing of life. The "words" tend to be too literal by their nature. The words get in The Way.
There is nothing wrong with sex, either. With intimacy. Rather, it is encouraged. There is nothing "wrong" with anything, as long as it is done with Love.
Finally, no Mystic tells you to embrace pain. That is nonsense. That is totally against God/ God is "bliss". What bliss is there in pain? Only the Church and the state tells you to embrace pain. Tells you you are a sinner as soon as you are born into the world. Tells you and teaches you about punishment. If there is pain you need to look at it and transform it. If you cannot transform it, walk away.
Do you really think detachment means "no cuddles"? No intimacy? Really you misunderstand very much. But you are not alone. All the brotherhoods thought that's what was meant too. All the invisible college. Have you not observed Royalty? the Pope? the Bishops? They all used Mysticism to get and maintain their power (even though they called Him "heretic"), but they misunderstood so much and became loveless. Dark. Black Magicians.
Now the Pope is saying "sorry". Perhaps the Grim Reaper has whispered in his ear, "One is coming".
Hmmmm...
Hi Guys! Glad to see this site is still going strong, and everyone seems to be in good spirits! I hope to be able to spend some more time here in the near future. I am still without web access at home.. but my pals down the hall don't mind me using there compie. Namaste to all. Franko
Namaste to all.
Franko
TO--thanks for your response! I smiled. It helps to feel understood, though it is not necessary to be so ;-) HADI--Illusions is my favorite too. Just reread not too long ago. KAREN--I wasn't apologizing to Hadi--and I agree no one need apologize simply because of disagreeing perspectives :-)--I was just trying to be diplomatic ;-)I don't take any of you too seriously...which is easier to do in this forum than when someone disagrees with me in person :-)I glean a lot of wisdom from you all--including those I may not agree with...“We must love them both, those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth and both have helped us in the finding of it.” St. Thomas Aquinas “Unity and diversity are not adversarial, but rather complementary parts of a unified whole. They are, at their best, synergistic partners in the creation of amore highly evolved culture. We are woven from many diverse threads, yet we make one piece of fabric. We are one and many at the same time; you’re a Catholic and an American(substitute citizen of the world); you’re gay and an American(citizen of the world); you’re black and an American.(citizen of the world)” Marianne Williamson in The Healing of America Namaste! Cathy
Cathy I'd say you've got "it" fiqured out when it comes to being in intimate (one+one) relationships whether it's a mate or children or the beauty of nature, and that is definitely a level of awareness in the total spectrum. It is also a "need" (attachment) at the physical level that satisfies a "soul" need (spiritual). That's a good example of the "paradoxes" of the Spiritual Path that we encounter. (CWG)Jesus taught in parables, and much of even what I write has a "deeper" meaning (hence the "") many times, so people can take what I say literally, or it may "trigger" other meanings and/or responses.I came to understand Jesus anger more when I started working with other people and realized they were going to do, what they were going to do, no matter what I said (for the most part).At first I'd "get in their face" (anger) but that didn't really have an effect either, except to upset me, so I finally evolved (and Ram Dass explained it) to the point of what I quoted Ghandi saying (earlier), and what RD said. "You huff and puff, and make believe it makes a difference.............when you know that it doesn't". We've talked a lot about "playing the game" lately, and that's what it is IF THE PLAYER IS AWARE OF IT. Most people aren't aware of "THE GAME" and do take what I say seriously these days.BTW, you make a lot of sense with how you put things, and I think it's just a matter of "observing" the interplay of the physical with the Spiritual.
It is also a "need" (attachment) at the physical level that satisfies a "soul" need (spiritual).
That's a good example of the "paradoxes" of the Spiritual Path that we encounter. (CWG)
Jesus taught in parables, and much of even what I write has a "deeper" meaning (hence the "") many times, so people can take what I say literally, or it may "trigger" other meanings and/or responses.
I came to understand Jesus anger more when I started working with other people and realized they were going to do, what they were going to do, no matter what I said (for the most part).
At first I'd "get in their face" (anger) but that didn't really have an effect either, except to upset me, so I finally evolved (and Ram Dass explained it) to the point of what I quoted Ghandi saying (earlier), and what RD said.
"You huff and puff, and make believe it makes a difference.............when you know that it doesn't".
We've talked a lot about "playing the game" lately, and that's what it is IF THE PLAYER IS AWARE OF IT.
Most people aren't aware of "THE GAME" and do take what I say seriously these days.
BTW, you make a lot of sense with how you put things, and I think it's just a matter of "observing" the interplay of the physical with the Spiritual.
Cathy, I don't feel you need to apologize to Hadi (or anyone). In my view we are all learners. Hadi is also a teacher, but I feel he must also continue to learn. One never knows where the teacher's teacher will appear. This is part of my own thought, I know--that the last piece of what we sometimes see as a puzzle will not be fitted in until we experience death, that is the death we see, that of our bodies. And Hadi, I knew what you meant by collective. I know you have made a journey within. I believe you are still on that journey. With many of us.
And Hadi, I knew what you meant by collective. I know you have made a journey within. I believe you are still on that journey. With many of us.
Actually, his accent wasn't that bad.
Cathy, I enjoyed Jonathan Livingstone too, when I was growing up. I still have a copy. I remember being so moved and thrilled that I gave it to my father to read. I don't know why. I was quite excited about the story and its multi layers, its allegory, its metaphores, its spirit. I guess I felt my father needed to read it too. But all he read was some stupid story about a seagul! "Wgo cares?" was his response. I needed that experience. My favorite of Bach's remains "Illusions".
My favorite of Bach's remains "Illusions".
I'M A BRAZILIAN JOURNALIST AND I'M WRITING AN ARTICLE ABOUT AYURVEDIC MASSAGE. I NEED TO CONTACT MR CHOPRA. COULD ANYBODY HELP ME? BEST REGARDS, MARIANA MELLO REPORTER ABRIL GROUP (WWW.ABRIL.COM.BR)
Hi TO--Actually I know that we aren't "supposed" to have opinions because that is an ego thing....something we need to transcend at some point...but I was thinking about Jesus as an example, and I seem to recall that he occassionally got angry or exasperated about things--like the Pharisees and their strict codes?? I am personally currently trying to figure this issue out for myself--as far as what I think of it--being in the world but not of it :-) In some respects it seems to me that one part of being in the world is to appreciate its wonders...but that means attachment to some degree to dualities...for where there is wonder so is there also pain etc...maybe the reason to be here at some point becomes to transcend what seems to be? A training ground to see past the obvious/the "real"...?? That would mean seeing past seeming horrors etc...to the underlying Reality...so why then was Jesus angry? Why didn't he see that the Pharisees were just doing the best they could at their level of consciousness? This same thing applies to pleasure/pain...one idea is to embrace it all, pleasure pain w/o judgment as just what you need at the moment. Then another school of thought seems to say detach from either...seeking instead spiritual awareness which then makes one (or as a result) no longer interested in the pursuit of pleasure or the avoidance of pain--I know the wonders of such are supposed to be great, but what about being in a relationship? You know, sex?! Seems a shame to detach from something so lovely! And the enjoyment of snuggling with a small child? Etc..It seems odd to not appreciate this....I understand the argument for putting God first--am just not clear what this means for the rest of my life and my loves :-) CWG stuff seems to say both things--it talks of enjoying beauty of flowers etc...and also of not having any preferences...maybe this is multi-level advice and one goes with where one is? Also the idea of mindfulness to me is about being aware of textures and smells and odors etc...details of what's going on--which seems to me another way of confirming the experience of a self in a body vs a Self, emanation of God?? As always, excuse the muddledness ;-) Kids! No time to rethink! Peace! Cathy
Marc - I read a really good book on the subject of fear. It is called Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway, by Susan Jeffers. It is listed at Amazon, and probably still in book stores. If you click on the link, it will take you to the Amazon listing.
Few people "live" in that "Consciousness", especially in our culture/society (U.S.), which is a reflection of conditions.
Hi, folks...know that I have been out of it lately, but just decided to check back in with you all, and am still trying to catch up on what's going on here. Om Mohammed
I've been asking myself........."Do "I" dare"? I guess so. It's only an attempt to clarify something about "our" conditioning. All thoughts above(?) (before/after) a climatic experience are conditioned(ing).
I guess so.
It's only an attempt to clarify something about "our" conditioning.
All thoughts above(?) (before/after) a climatic experience are conditioned(ing).
Namaste' "The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences" ...........................Hsin Hsin Ming
for those who have no preferences"
Hadi-your last post made sense to me--as your posts usually do-- :-) I guess, I am just being defensive--which is a show of having ties with the ego, I know :-) I personally do not have problems with other culture's "ways"--am married to a man from another culture...I understand that there are other "ways" to do things...but, isn't having a preference allowed? :-)Can't one have an opinion? I am sorta stuck on intolerance of intolerance...;-) Namaste! Cathy
Hi, I usually agree with Hadi's wisdom, but in this case I do not :-) Hadi said <<"When you are hypnotized, you do not know you are hypnotized. You accept your world without question. Without any real investigation, until you begin to search your own soul." While you may have a wider choice in the West in clothing and a wider choice of desires, the idea that you have any "freedom of choice" is an illusion. You are conditioned to dress the way you do just as much as the African, the Arab, the Mexican, the Indian, the China man or the Nazi. >> I agree that Life *may be* an illusion/a mass hypnosis...though even that is debatable...though say that it is an illusion---if one has the insight to even think along those lines, the hypnosis is starting to be broken....things are questioned, looked at...less and less is just accepted as is. Though certainly, for convenience's sake not every detail can be scrutinized continuously :-) So if one comes to understand that things are not what they seem, and then chooses to dress as a hippie, say (a *conscious* decision) --that is a free choice. Now if one feels that society judges us by our appearance and the hippie look is out and therefore feels compelled to conform---that is when one is under the "spell". Of course, one can also to decide to dress in current style *consciously*, as I see it....the difference lies in our perception---our awareness of what is going into our choice. This talk puts me in mind of Jonathon Livingston Seagull--the other seagulls flew only to eat. Jonathon saw there were other choices and took them. Still, if he did use flying to then eat also, it would not have been the same choice as those who only flew to eat. The difference of awareness is key. I lived in a college town for many years and I would see people bedecked in all sorts of outfits---now whether they were aware of why they chose to dress as they did or not, the fact remains that they could do so and go out in public without undue concern for their safety--I agree that possibly their choices were not "free"--that maybe they made them wanting to fit in to a group or whatever...maybe they were "hypnotized" as you put it. But part of the illusion is the dualities--freedom to dress as you please in public/strict social mores about how one sex should appear in public being one. Within the illusion, it is a "real" freedom or restriction. Also, I think the not knowing your hypnotized idea is intriguing, but it can be problematic as well...it can be said for whatever situation or level of awareness we attain...how do we know the one with all/level 7 is *real* and not just another illusion?? ad infinatum... I admit to being a little defensive here...I grew up with a mother who felt I should serve my brothers etc...and to this day, she asks me to help cook, clean and serve when I'm at her home, while the men laze about ;-) So maybe my rebelliousness is making me miss something? Namaste! Cathy
Maybe tomorrow Chris. It's late here in England. Namaste'.
Karen, I should clarify what I mean by the "collective". First of all when I said that I left the collective, I did not mean that I dropped out of society and became a hippie or a beach bum. I meant I unplugged from collective ideologies and beliefs. Collective priorities and norms. Secondly, while I didn't think anything Allah had to say was "black and white", or in any way the normal view one hears, I would also like to emphasise that they were not my views and beliefs. I was simply trying to demonstrate that there "are" other viewpoints which are equally valid to the judgements and assumptions some of the posters here have been making about Islam, Arabs and other groups and beliefs they are largely ignorant about. I feel that some of Allah's views were more poigniant and accurate than those made by these individuals, but then Allah is "all seeing, all knowing and ever merciful". There are collectives - tribal and national - which have their own identities and image. These collectives are plugged into collective ideas, beliefs and religions. Then there is THE collective, which is all of us. The majority of people identify with their tribal and national collectives and all the baggage that comes with that. They cannot identify with alien cultures, laws and beliefs of other collectives because they have been brought up and conditioned quite differently and the nation, like its people, has a collective "ego", which separates and divides. While there are a number of genuine and sincere humanists who are able to bridge these divides through tolerance and understanding, there are far fewer who can fully empathise with all their fellow men and women. To do this, to really be able to plug into the essence of the collective, their "unconscious" side, this requires a special journey. A journey within. A journey the individual can only undertake alone. This I have done, and I reached a point where, by being purely individual and dropping all my tribal and national beliefs, by unplugging from all of it, I discovered ALL of US are "one". If we are all "one" then the real problem is our Self. It is the way "we" are which needs attention, not the way he is, or she is or they are. It's the way I AM. To think the problem is the religion, the politics, the economics, the skin colour or the fact that everyone else is inferior in awareness and consciousness, etc., is to fragment "my" world. It is how I function and see the world and how I operate which is causing the problems that I encounter and see. And everyone is like me. They operate in the same way. Making the same assumptions. Reacting with conditioned responses. It may look different, but in the "mirror of relationships", the guy pointing his finger at me and snarling, is me>/b>. That is the re-action that "I" have created to "me". That is why I see it. And if that reflection is smiling and looking at me with eyes of love and brotherhood, then tht too is the experience which I have created. That too is me smiling back. Learning how to do this will make your journeys into foreign countries and cultures much less fearful and much more welcoming. I hope this answers your question of "where are you as an individual, in your heart?" If not, try clicking here.
First of all when I said that I left the collective, I did not mean that I dropped out of society and became a hippie or a beach bum. I meant I unplugged from collective ideologies and beliefs. Collective priorities and norms.
Secondly, while I didn't think anything Allah had to say was "black and white", or in any way the normal view one hears, I would also like to emphasise that they were not my views and beliefs. I was simply trying to demonstrate that there "are" other viewpoints which are equally valid to the judgements and assumptions some of the posters here have been making about Islam, Arabs and other groups and beliefs they are largely ignorant about. I feel that some of Allah's views were more poigniant and accurate than those made by these individuals, but then Allah is "all seeing, all knowing and ever merciful".
There are collectives - tribal and national - which have their own identities and image. These collectives are plugged into collective ideas, beliefs and religions. Then there is THE collective, which is all of us. The majority of people identify with their tribal and national collectives and all the baggage that comes with that. They cannot identify with alien cultures, laws and beliefs of other collectives because they have been brought up and conditioned quite differently and the nation, like its people, has a collective "ego", which separates and divides. While there are a number of genuine and sincere humanists who are able to bridge these divides through tolerance and understanding, there are far fewer who can fully empathise with all their fellow men and women. To do this, to really be able to plug into the essence of the collective, their "unconscious" side, this requires a special journey. A journey within. A journey the individual can only undertake alone.
This I have done, and I reached a point where, by being purely individual and dropping all my tribal and national beliefs, by unplugging from all of it, I discovered ALL of US are "one". If we are all "one" then the real problem is our Self. It is the way "we" are which needs attention, not the way he is, or she is or they are. It's the way I AM. To think the problem is the religion, the politics, the economics, the skin colour or the fact that everyone else is inferior in awareness and consciousness, etc., is to fragment "my" world.
It is how I function and see the world and how I operate which is causing the problems that I encounter and see. And everyone is like me. They operate in the same way. Making the same assumptions. Reacting with conditioned responses. It may look different, but in the "mirror of relationships", the guy pointing his finger at me and snarling, is me>/b>. That is the re-action that "I" have created to "me". That is why I see it. And if that reflection is smiling and looking at me with eyes of love and brotherhood, then tht too is the experience which I have created. That too is me smiling back. Learning how to do this will make your journeys into foreign countries and cultures much less fearful and much more welcoming.
I hope this answers your question of "where are you as an individual, in your heart?" If not, try clicking here.
Hmmmm. What do you mean Hadi that any freedom of choice is an illusion?
"we can at least choose for ourselves what to wear in public without fear. And we can work and do much of what our heart desires" "When you are hypnotized, you do not know you are hypnotized. You accept your world without question. Without any real investigation, until you begin to search your own soul." While you may have a wider choice in the West in clothing and a wider choice of desires, the idea that you have any "freedom of choice" is an illusion. You are conditioned to dress the way you do just as much as the African, the Arab, the Mexican, the Indian, the China man or the Nazi.
"When you are hypnotized, you do not know you are hypnotized. You accept your world without question. Without any real investigation, until you begin to search your own soul."
While you may have a wider choice in the West in clothing and a wider choice of desires, the idea that you have any "freedom of choice" is an illusion. You are conditioned to dress the way you do just as much as the African, the Arab, the Mexican, the Indian, the China man or the Nazi.
it was very clear, Cathy!
Namaste' I think this is Ghandi: "It's not important what you do, but it is important that you do it".
I think this is Ghandi:
Karen, Your last post reminded me of a quote that I love and which epitomizes my approach to "saving the world" :-) "...the hands of God on Earth are attached to our own wrists. It is through each and every one of us that the Divine Potential is actualized into manifest form." Neale Donald Walsch. I understand that this might all just be a game....and I do believe that in the end it is all okay...but I also think that part of entering a "relative" world is to make choices about what we value, and what we do, what we experience....and while the choices we make are not ultimately "judged", it is still important--perhaps only as an exercise of creation?? So we each follow our inclinations in this regard--yet stay detached from specific outcome...I gotta go--kids are calling---sorry if this isn't clear :-) Namaste! Cathy
Thanks. Risk-taking. :-) As I tried to think more throughout the day, I pondered whether the dividing off of the individual from the collective isn't just more circular thinking which leads to paralysis--more black and white that leaves us with unsatisfactory systems, hate, and a nearly-ruined ecology, among other things. I prefer the all-inclusive One, the individual working to improve the self and when reaching each level of his/her own path, then sharing through discussion and action with and through the collective. This concept just feels more harmonious, more "right" to me.
Well said!
hi Geoff, the game was posted from the lightfamily. unfortunately, i have lost their web address. you have posted from this site before and this message is channeled from The Group. maybe you will "remember" :) from this little bit of info and if you do please post link here again. thanks for all your posts and Namasté and love to you, dear friend.
I'm currently listening to "The Seven Laws of (Spiritual) Success" all the time in my car. I thought I knew alot. I know nothing. (ignorance?) (smiley face) & uncertainty are bliss. I just left my job tonight as an R.N. in a prison psychiatric unit, I get in the car and you, Depak, are telling me uncertainty is one of the best places to be. I think something really good is going to happen! Thanks for being there. P.S. I also love Emmet Fox
Good Morning gang, All this talk of 'hypnosis' reminds me of a piece of writng I found last year called "The Game" - can't recall which site it's at so I can't provide a link ... but I have the text on my hard drive ... The Game Let us take you on a journey....... All of us here are gathered in a meadow at the base of a mountain. We are home and we are all playing together in perfect love. A dear brother approaches and says "Would anyone here like to play a new game?" You ask "what kind of game?" "Is it like the ones we play now?" "No, he replies, it is like nothing we have ever done before." "It will be an elaborate game with many props and disguises." "We will wear veils so that we can no longer see or re-member our true nature, even the veil will be hidden from view." "Then we will start the game and begin to re-member." "This veil will be so effective that you will forget not only who you are, you will even forget home." "Even as we pass each other on our paths, we will look into each others eyes and not recognize one another." " The veil will be so effective that many will look around at the props and disguises and truly believe that is all there is." "You will retain all of your powers, yet you will not remember how to use them or that they are even there." "The game will be played in phases and before we start each phase of the game we may place as many reminders in our path as we wish, to help us remember." "Be advised to place many reminders, for most of you will rationalize them away easily." "We will choose the time and place of our entrance and exits on the gameboard." "We will also set up circumstances and lessons we wish to complete while we are under the veil." "A tally will be kept and points will accumulate from one phase to the next." "This point system will only be used by you to determine what will be included in your next phase." "You will not be able to remember from one phase to the next, yet, once mastered, certain attributes may be carried forward into the next phase." "You will always carry your core essence and personality yet you will have nothing to compare it to." "Humor will always be a reminder that passes uncheck through the veil and if we find you getting too serious we will tickle your funny bone as a reminder that this is only a game." "There will also be many masters available along the way to help us if we wander too far from the path." "Oh yes, I almost forgot an important part of the game . . . . . at all times there will be free choice." "You have complete choice in all matters, you may even choose not to play the game or call in a substitute." "You may choose to hide or you may choose to seek, it is entirely up to you." "On the game board there will be polarity." "This has to do with the mechanics of the game board itself and will be a necessary component." "Polarity, however, will taint your vision and you will perceive things as Up or Down, Light or Dark, Good or Bad Love or Fear and Right or Wrong." "Do not let this fool you." "We will all leave our higher aspects of ourselves in a special place for the duration of the game, otherwise the game would be much too easy." "Your higher self will be available to you at any time yet you must learn to access it and to even remember that it exists." "Also, you may choose special loved ones to ride on your shoulder to give advice during the game, once again, remembering that they even exist will be a big part of the game itself." "The game will be to see how many can remember who they are, where they are from and what powers of creation they have." "Once you remember then you may re-merge with your higher self and recreate home on the other side of the veil to demonstrate that you have fully remembered." "So who wants to play?" Curiously, in my travels the other day I found this - The Experience of Life is but a game So it seems we agreed to be 'hypnotised' ... hmmm ... J
All this talk of 'hypnosis' reminds me of a piece of writng I found last year called "The Game" - can't recall which site it's at so I can't provide a link ... but I have the text on my hard drive ...
Let us take you on a journey....... All of us here are gathered in a meadow at the base of a mountain. We are home and we are all playing together in perfect love. A dear brother approaches and says "Would anyone here like to play a new game?" You ask "what kind of game?" "Is it like the ones we play now?" "No, he replies, it is like nothing we have ever done before." "It will be an elaborate game with many props and disguises." "We will wear veils so that we can no longer see or re-member our true nature, even the veil will be hidden from view." "Then we will start the game and begin to re-member." "This veil will be so effective that you will forget not only who you are, you will even forget home." "Even as we pass each other on our paths, we will look into each others eyes and not recognize one another." " The veil will be so effective that many will look around at the props and disguises and truly believe that is all there is." "You will retain all of your powers, yet you will not remember how to use them or that they are even there." "The game will be played in phases and before we start each phase of the game we may place as many reminders in our path as we wish, to help us remember." "Be advised to place many reminders, for most of you will rationalize them away easily." "We will choose the time and place of our entrance and exits on the gameboard." "We will also set up circumstances and lessons we wish to complete while we are under the veil." "A tally will be kept and points will accumulate from one phase to the next." "This point system will only be used by you to determine what will be included in your next phase." "You will not be able to remember from one phase to the next, yet, once mastered, certain attributes may be carried forward into the next phase." "You will always carry your core essence and personality yet you will have nothing to compare it to." "Humor will always be a reminder that passes uncheck through the veil and if we find you getting too serious we will tickle your funny bone as a reminder that this is only a game." "There will also be many masters available along the way to help us if we wander too far from the path." "Oh yes, I almost forgot an important part of the game . . . . . at all times there will be free choice." "You have complete choice in all matters, you may even choose not to play the game or call in a substitute." "You may choose to hide or you may choose to seek, it is entirely up to you." "On the game board there will be polarity." "This has to do with the mechanics of the game board itself and will be a necessary component." "Polarity, however, will taint your vision and you will perceive things as Up or Down, Light or Dark, Good or Bad Love or Fear and Right or Wrong." "Do not let this fool you." "We will all leave our higher aspects of ourselves in a special place for the duration of the game, otherwise the game would be much too easy." "Your higher self will be available to you at any time yet you must learn to access it and to even remember that it exists." "Also, you may choose special loved ones to ride on your shoulder to give advice during the game, once again, remembering that they even exist will be a big part of the game itself." "The game will be to see how many can remember who they are, where they are from and what powers of creation they have." "Once you remember then you may re-merge with your higher self and recreate home on the other side of the veil to demonstrate that you have fully remembered." "So who wants to play?" Curiously, in my travels the other day I found this -
All of us here are gathered in a meadow at the base of a mountain. We are home and we are all playing together in perfect love. A dear brother approaches and says "Would anyone here like to play a new game?" You ask "what kind of game?" "Is it like the ones we play now?" "No, he replies, it is like nothing we have ever done before." "It will be an elaborate game with many props and disguises." "We will wear veils so that we can no longer see or re-member our true nature, even the veil will be hidden from view." "Then we will start the game and begin to re-member."
"This veil will be so effective that you will forget not only who you are, you will even forget home." "Even as we pass each other on our paths, we will look into each others eyes and not recognize one another." " The veil will be so effective that many will look around at the props and disguises and truly believe that is all there is." "You will retain all of your powers, yet you will not remember how to use them or that they are even there."
"The game will be played in phases and before we start each phase of the game we may place as many reminders in our path as we wish, to help us remember." "Be advised to place many reminders, for most of you will rationalize them away easily." "We will choose the time and place of our entrance and exits on the gameboard." "We will also set up circumstances and lessons we wish to complete while we are under the veil." "A tally will be kept and points will accumulate from one phase to the next." "This point system will only be used by you to determine what will be included in your next phase." "You will not be able to remember from one phase to the next, yet, once mastered, certain attributes may be carried forward into the next phase." "You will always carry your core essence and personality yet you will have nothing to compare it to."
"Humor will always be a reminder that passes uncheck through the veil and if we find you getting too serious we will tickle your funny bone as a reminder that this is only a game." "There will also be many masters available along the way to help us if we wander too far from the path." "Oh yes, I almost forgot an important part of the game . . . . . at all times there will be free choice." "You have complete choice in all matters, you may even choose not to play the game or call in a substitute." "You may choose to hide or you may choose to seek, it is entirely up to you."
"On the game board there will be polarity." "This has to do with the mechanics of the game board itself and will be a necessary component." "Polarity, however, will taint your vision and you will perceive things as Up or Down, Light or Dark, Good or Bad Love or Fear and Right or Wrong." "Do not let this fool you."
"We will all leave our higher aspects of ourselves in a special place for the duration of the game, otherwise the game would be much too easy." "Your higher self will be available to you at any time yet you must learn to access it and to even remember that it exists." "Also, you may choose special loved ones to ride on your shoulder to give advice during the game, once again, remembering that they even exist will be a big part of the game itself."
"The game will be to see how many can remember who they are, where they are from and what powers of creation they have." "Once you remember then you may re-merge with your higher self and recreate home on the other side of the veil to demonstrate that you have fully remembered."
"So who wants to play?"
The Experience of Life is but a game
So it seems we agreed to be 'hypnotised' ... hmmm ...
Hi all, I think the idea about the different treatment of women here in West vs in the Middle East is an interesting one...I understand that Islam per se teaches respect for woman---as does the Bible/Christianity...though, from the Bible, I think, a good Christian woman has a specific "place" (in the home) which is supposed to satisfy her :-) And, for me, it does--though I am not Christian :-) I am not knocking staying home with kids by any means! But,while I acknowledge that women of the west are subject to superficial judgement on looks, and most of what Hadi said....we can at least choose for ourselves what to wear in public without fear. And we can work and do much of what our heart desires--though there are many women who are held back by their own conditioning and/or ideas...perhaps the same is true in the Middle East...I do not know! Surely there are women there who are professionals and who can speak and be heard and who can choose to dress as they please? Maybe even choose not to be Muslim? I think most women in the West still feel a bit of a sense of rebelliousness after such a long time of being "property" etc...a common thing among any oppressed group :-)And certainly understandable, I think. Not necessarily the "highest" response, but understandable. I think it takes some stirring of the pot for things to get properly mixed and distributed ;-)(Which discussion can do, and being involved in the collective...certainly inner work is important too--probably the most important part--look at Gahndi!) Peace! Cathy
Namaste' The hypnosis is.............we think we're "free".
The hypnosis is.............we think we're "free".
Hello, everyOne! Thanks for the Onederful posts.Namasté and Love to All! :)
Namasté and Love to All! :)
I just want to add my support of what Karen has to say in relation to Hadi's post, even though she is up against a formidible source .....ALLAH, the issue is not nearly as black and white, {no pun intended} as Hadi presents. Most men everywhere would not disregard a woman's appearance and sexuality as the externals are all we have to judge by. I am not referring to the extremes taken by some using surgical procedures, which include 35% male. Geoff, thanks so much for the humour site. I started the day laughing out loud. I've passed it along to others. Always good to spread a bit of cheer. Dreary, hazy day here on the coast.
Your question on hypnosis is one for close examination! The first observation is that we hypnotize ourselves, of course. But what if we break that and see a path? What if we really have worked with ourselves--and is there a presumption here that none of us has? This isn't, for me, an East vs. West consideration. This is a human consideration. I have seen and sometimes experienced all that Hadi describes, and I've read many histories. To repeat, it is a worldwide, all-encompassing issue. And, as usual, I think it's based on fear, actually fearS of many kinds, of many origins, of very long standing. Accusations aren't in order. Examples of thinking and action proceeding from that thinking are. I'm still part of the collective and happy to be there. If the collective needs some work what can I, as an individual part of it, do except share my views, as do we all?
I am not referring to any exclusive geographical or religious/philosophical arena. The problem is pervasive over the entire world. So you've left the collective: where are you as an individual, in your heart?
Hadi, I posed that question before reading your other posts on hypnosis ... it's still an interesting question though ... everyone talks about 'society' as an ongoing entity yet its constituent 'parts' are individuals ... hmmm ... and transient individuals at that ... BTW, if you want a good laugh - click here - it includes the funniest headlines of 1998 A couple of my favourites - "Legislator Wants Tougher Death Penalty" "Something Went Wrong in Jet Crash, Experts Say " "Miners Refuse to Work After Death " "Lawyer Says Client Is Not That Guilty"
BTW, if you want a good laugh - click here - it includes the funniest headlines of 1998
A couple of my favourites -
"Legislator Wants Tougher Death Penalty"
"Something Went Wrong in Jet Crash, Experts Say "
"Miners Refuse to Work After Death "
"Lawyer Says Client Is Not That Guilty"
Wonderful as always ... just one question though ... 'Who' or 'what' is doing the 'hypnotising' ? and for that matter if at some level 'all is one' then 'who' is being hypnotised ... :) Keep it up - not a bad title for a book ... :)
'Who' or 'what' is doing the 'hypnotising' ? and for that matter if at some level 'all is one' then 'who' is being hypnotised ... :)
Keep it up - not a bad title for a book ... :)
Superb!! !!!Wow!! Hadi!!! Namaste'
Namaste'
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