To encourage the exchange of thoughts about Deepak Chopra and his work, we will post your comments, inquiries, and opinions. Please feel free to respond to someone else's comments or questions, or simply post your own.
Please Post Your Comments Name: Email Address: Comments:
Name: Email Address: Comments:
Email Address:
Comments:
Displaying messages 1 through 100 of 53643. << < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 > >>
<< < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 > >>
Peggy Thanks for sharing your balcony experience--pretty cool! Did it change much about how you are, what you think, or was it more of a confirmation of ideas you'd had? Hadi I was contemplating your relationship story--I think it's great that you grew out of the conditioning you received as a child! I have a couple of comments/thoughts about some stuff you said that I offer without any implication that I have any true perspective on your situation :-) In other words, don't take any offense if none of this applies!The biggest thing that struck me about Grace is that I used to be her--ha! Well, remember I said I was needy...and while I think her desire for attention might be different than what I was looking for (you mentioned her getting lonely easily and liking chit chat--which sounds like she likes to be "entertained"--my needs were more about wanting to be admired for my fine character ;-))...it boils down to the same thing, I think--having expectations of our loved one to fulfill certain requirements for us to be happy in the relationship. You mentioned that you had needed to learn to be giving in a relationship so Grace was a perfect match...but--and I may be completely wrong here...at the end, you sounded as if maybe you were now ready for something else...that you have some dreams of a way of being in the world that you're not sure Grace will embrace?? This is what you said: It has also been hard for me because I have wanted to go to the cave, to the mountain and to experience greater solitude and go deeper into my Self. Like Buddha to go off into the world. To Master some of what has been revealed to me. In this regard I sometimes feel that Grace gets in the way. She is still as demanding as ever even though I am now also trying to give my attention to God. I have had plenty of frustration in this regard, but I am advanced enough to recognise that only I limit me. She is not responsible. She is just "being" Grace. I also think of these frustrations as learning exercises. Part of the journey. For one thing there’s the adage "wherever you go, there you are". And I also have to remind myself that I have already experienced what Buddha and Jesus went searching for. So that isn’t really my problem. The problem is going out there and using it, teaching it, becoming IT. Perhaps it’s just a fear of success, perhaps of failure, which holds me back. But deep down I feel that if I go out and try to fulfil my destiny my attention will be elsewhere and it will be entirely up to Grace to hold on. And she may choose not to. The part about trying to give your attention to God and about if you followed your dream your attention would be elsewhere than on Grace I think are significant. Polly Berends calls what you talk about going out there, using it etc...(though not really teaching it) "living prayer" or exercising your spiritual awareness---and really this is what we "should"/could do everyday no matter what our circumstance...the whole "needing" or desiring or demanding or expecting of certain things in a relationship is an unnecessary--albeit widely believed-- element I think. Not to say that I don't do it ;-) I know this sounds rather impractical, perhaps...I'm trying to express what has happened for me...and I recognize that it may not be what others are about in this life...but for me, I try to completely let my husband be who he is w/o judgment. If he compliments me, criticizes me, notices me or not, I try to not take it personally as an individual self. Thomas Hora says "There is no interaction anywhere, only omniaction everywhere--which is the notion behind my perspective. I think this goes along with the idea of us all being ONE and the Polly Berends quote I gave before about "Love is not the coming together of self and other..." It's not a very romantic notion that we are just two expressions of God in close proximity :-) Vs being selves who do and mean so much for each other...I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are not here to meet anyone's needs, nor they you. Certainly consideration of others is a fine thing...but ideally we rely on God to be buoyed up (to meet our needs) and are then free to be loving together...you quoted to me not that long ago, the thing about "If you love something set it free..." to me that setting free can be understood to be free from expectation, free from meeting my "needs"... Well, it is late...I'm not sure how much sense I've made per usual :-) But I've spent too much time typing to delete this! Ha! I reiterate that I am in no way trying to imply that I know anything really about what you need to do etc...just sharing things that struck me from where I sit (as this expression of God over here learning her own lessons, making her own discoveries ;-))Namaste! Cathy
Thanks for sharing your balcony experience--pretty cool! Did it change much about how you are, what you think, or was it more of a confirmation of ideas you'd had?
Hadi I was contemplating your relationship story--I think it's great that you grew out of the conditioning you received as a child! I have a couple of comments/thoughts about some stuff you said that I offer without any implication that I have any true perspective on your situation :-) In other words, don't take any offense if none of this applies!
The biggest thing that struck me about Grace is that I used to be her--ha! Well, remember I said I was needy...and while I think her desire for attention might be different than what I was looking for (you mentioned her getting lonely easily and liking chit chat--which sounds like she likes to be "entertained"--my needs were more about wanting to be admired for my fine character ;-))...it boils down to the same thing, I think--having expectations of our loved one to fulfill certain requirements for us to be happy in the relationship. You mentioned that you had needed to learn to be giving in a relationship so Grace was a perfect match...but--and I may be completely wrong here...at the end, you sounded as if maybe you were now ready for something else...that you have some dreams of a way of being in the world that you're not sure Grace will embrace?? This is what you said:
It has also been hard for me because I have wanted to go to the cave, to the mountain and to experience greater solitude and go deeper into my Self. Like Buddha to go off into the world. To Master some of what has been revealed to me. In this regard I sometimes feel that Grace gets in the way. She is still as demanding as ever even though I am now also trying to give my attention to God. I have had plenty of frustration in this regard, but I am advanced enough to recognise that only I limit me. She is not responsible. She is just "being" Grace. I also think of these frustrations as learning exercises. Part of the journey. For one thing there’s the adage "wherever you go, there you are". And I also have to remind myself that I have already experienced what Buddha and Jesus went searching for. So that isn’t really my problem. The problem is going out there and using it, teaching it, becoming IT. Perhaps it’s just a fear of success, perhaps of failure, which holds me back. But deep down I feel that if I go out and try to fulfil my destiny my attention will be elsewhere and it will be entirely up to Grace to hold on. And she may choose not to.
The part about trying to give your attention to God and about if you followed your dream your attention would be elsewhere than on Grace I think are significant. Polly Berends calls what you talk about going out there, using it etc...(though not really teaching it) "living prayer" or exercising your spiritual awareness---and really this is what we "should"/could do everyday no matter what our circumstance...the whole "needing" or desiring or demanding or expecting of certain things in a relationship is an unnecessary--albeit widely believed-- element I think. Not to say that I don't do it ;-) I know this sounds rather impractical, perhaps...I'm trying to express what has happened for me...and I recognize that it may not be what others are about in this life...but for me, I try to completely let my husband be who he is w/o judgment. If he compliments me, criticizes me, notices me or not, I try to not take it personally as an individual self. Thomas Hora says "There is no interaction anywhere, only omniaction everywhere--which is the notion behind my perspective. I think this goes along with the idea of us all being ONE and the Polly Berends quote I gave before about "Love is not the coming together of self and other..." It's not a very romantic notion that we are just two expressions of God in close proximity :-) Vs being selves who do and mean so much for each other...
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are not here to meet anyone's needs, nor they you. Certainly consideration of others is a fine thing...but ideally we rely on God to be buoyed up (to meet our needs) and are then free to be loving together...you quoted to me not that long ago, the thing about "If you love something set it free..." to me that setting free can be understood to be free from expectation, free from meeting my "needs"...
Well, it is late...I'm not sure how much sense I've made per usual :-) But I've spent too much time typing to delete this! Ha! I reiterate that I am in no way trying to imply that I know anything really about what you need to do etc...just sharing things that struck me from where I sit (as this expression of God over here learning her own lessons, making her own discoveries ;-))
Namaste!
Cathy
I wish you success in overcoming your compulsion to read it. You will have several more chances!!! :-)
and the beat goes on...Ahhhhhhhh....soooooooooo....
Ahhhhhhhh....soooooooooo....
Prozac does not in any way interfere with a mystical experience. The depressive state which often requires prozac or another anti-depressant does interfere. The prozac has no known mental affect on a person who does not have depression. It is not "the happy pill" that some would have you think. In that way I think that depression may differ from schzophrenia and bi-polar disorder. I have begun to think of depression as a sub-level of reality. Keep in mind that feelings of sadness or hopelessness are only one symptom out of many. And I am not talking about "feeling down" or having the blues. Terry, do you ever listen and absorb what I write about depression or do you dismiss it, forget it, disagree or what? I am curious. (You are not the only one who responds this way.) I believe what you say about the disease which you have but sometimes I think that you don't extend to me the same courtesy. I have had this disease for at least forty years. Most of that time prozac was not available so I have seen the difference it can make in some lives. Love you anyway, bud! I would also like to know if there is anyone "out there" that I have helped to understand depression better from my soapbox through the years. A desire to help others through information is the reason that I post about it.
In that way I think that depression may differ from schzophrenia and bi-polar disorder.
I have begun to think of depression as a sub-level of reality. Keep in mind that feelings of sadness or hopelessness are only one symptom out of many. And I am not talking about "feeling down" or having the blues.
Terry, do you ever listen and absorb what I write about depression or do you dismiss it, forget it, disagree or what? I am curious. (You are not the only one who responds this way.) I believe what you say about the disease which you have but sometimes I think that you don't extend to me the same courtesy.
I have had this disease for at least forty years. Most of that time prozac was not available so I have seen the difference it can make in some lives.
Love you anyway, bud!
I would also like to know if there is anyone "out there" that I have helped to understand depression better from my soapbox through the years. A desire to help others through information is the reason that I post about it.
One method that can be used for meditation. It is not the only way: 1. Set a timer so that the mind is released from questions about how much time has elapsed. I set the timer for thirty minutes. I don't recommend that amount of time in the beginning. Consider starting with ten to twenty minutes two or three times a day. 2. Take every precaution not to be interrupted. If someone else is in the house, I let them know that I will be meditating. I disconnect the phone and remove myself from potentially high traffic areas. I do not listen to music or rhythms as an aid. They are relaxing but occupy too much of the brain. 3. Get into a comfortable position. Usually for me this is with my feet at least slightly supported but not in a fully reclining position. I let my arms rest at my side or supported on the armrests of a chair. 4. Take one or two deep breaths through the nose, making certain to exhale normally. Take a few seconds for a mental muscular inventory to relax any tense muscles. I let my jaw go slack. 5. Begin to breath gently, smoothly and regularly through the nose. Focus attention on the breathing itself at the beginning. 6. When thoughts distract, gently push them aside and refocus on the breathing. Do not entertain feelings of frustration at these thoughts as they come. 7. Allow whatever happens to happen without judging it as a good meditation or a bad meditation. 8. When the timer goes off or when the time is right, continue to keep the eyes closed for a moment and gradually release yourself from the meditative state. 9. Practice this technique twice a day on a regular basis. There does seem to be a cumulative effect. 10. It is "okay" to use this technique for centering for shorter periods of time even when much is going on around you. I've used it in the ER of a hospital (where I think it once actually kept me breathing) and just before testifying in court. I've also used it when waiting in line. But I don't let these times "count" for the regular twice a day meditations.
1. Set a timer so that the mind is released from questions about how much time has elapsed. I set the timer for thirty minutes. I don't recommend that amount of time in the beginning. Consider starting with ten to twenty minutes two or three times a day.
2. Take every precaution not to be interrupted. If someone else is in the house, I let them know that I will be meditating. I disconnect the phone and remove myself from potentially high traffic areas. I do not listen to music or rhythms as an aid. They are relaxing but occupy too much of the brain.
3. Get into a comfortable position. Usually for me this is with my feet at least slightly supported but not in a fully reclining position. I let my arms rest at my side or supported on the armrests of a chair.
4. Take one or two deep breaths through the nose, making certain to exhale normally. Take a few seconds for a mental muscular inventory to relax any tense muscles. I let my jaw go slack.
5. Begin to breath gently, smoothly and regularly through the nose. Focus attention on the breathing itself at the beginning.
6. When thoughts distract, gently push them aside and refocus on the breathing. Do not entertain feelings of frustration at these thoughts as they come.
7. Allow whatever happens to happen without judging it as a good meditation or a bad meditation.
8. When the timer goes off or when the time is right, continue to keep the eyes closed for a moment and gradually release yourself from the meditative state.
9. Practice this technique twice a day on a regular basis. There does seem to be a cumulative effect.
10. It is "okay" to use this technique for centering for shorter periods of time even when much is going on around you. I've used it in the ER of a hospital (where I think it once actually kept me breathing) and just before testifying in court. I've also used it when waiting in line. But I don't let these times "count" for the regular twice a day meditations.
(Some of you may want to scroll if you've heard about my balcony experience before.) About twenty years ago, I stood in daylight on the balcony of my apartment. I don't know of anything that precipitated this event. I was listening to a little opera. Suddenly, I felt that my self was expanding to encompass everything and that everything was embracing me. If you ever watched the shift to warp speed on the old Star Trek, that is a little what it felt like. I was aware that I was also still a physical being standing on a balcony, but that seemed to be irrelevant. I had a profound sense of just being and being all at the same time. I had feelings about my earthbound self. The events of my life seemed very dear and I had tender, almost sentimental, feelings. But it was the kind of tenderness that you might feel in looking back at a childhood toy and remembering the magic that is no longer there. I felt that my earthbound life was basically inconsequential. I was seeing what was before my physical eyes but everything seemed bathed in a sort of rose gold light and yet the colors were intense. My feelings were wildly euphoric. I've had synthetic heroin before and the euphoria from that drug did not begin to approach what I felt. Then I seemed to sense that my awareness was coming from from an "eye in the sky." I knew that if I closed that eye, I would cease to exist and that would be perfection...completion. At that point my husband touched me on the arm and it was over. He had come to the balcony because he had heard me crying loudly. I had no idea that I was crying at all. Please understand that these words are totally inadequate in conveying what I was feeling. I also do not believe that anyone else is in a position of judging the intensity. I know only that it was short-lived -- a matter of minutes. Incidentally, the piece that I was listening to when the experience began was M'Appari. I later looked up an English translation and it does refer to a vision. I have not returned to that "place." Three years ago, I experienced some of the euphoria and golden light, but only for a few seconds. That occurred as I awoke from a nap. I thought there was a golden glowing infant on my lap. I knew only enough about the world's great religions to believe that they all come from the same Source. But I didn't know that my experience wasn't unique. I wasn't familiar with New Age thought (whatever that is) and I still tread carefully in that area. But I did try to learn to meditate after that. I wasn't satisfied with the techniques that I used with meditation until the right teacher came along. That teacher is Terry (TO) and I find it funny that he asks me to post "my" method.
About twenty years ago, I stood in daylight on the balcony of my apartment. I don't know of anything that precipitated this event. I was listening to a little opera.
Suddenly, I felt that my self was expanding to encompass everything and that everything was embracing me. If you ever watched the shift to warp speed on the old Star Trek, that is a little what it felt like. I was aware that I was also still a physical being standing on a balcony, but that seemed to be irrelevant. I had a profound sense of just being and being all at the same time.
I had feelings about my earthbound self. The events of my life seemed very dear and I had tender, almost sentimental, feelings. But it was the kind of tenderness that you might feel in looking back at a childhood toy and remembering the magic that is no longer there. I felt that my earthbound life was basically inconsequential.
I was seeing what was before my physical eyes but everything seemed bathed in a sort of rose gold light and yet the colors were intense. My feelings were wildly euphoric. I've had synthetic heroin before and the euphoria from that drug did not begin to approach what I felt.
Then I seemed to sense that my awareness was coming from from an "eye in the sky." I knew that if I closed that eye, I would cease to exist and that would be perfection...completion.
At that point my husband touched me on the arm and it was over. He had come to the balcony because he had heard me crying loudly. I had no idea that I was crying at all.
Please understand that these words are totally inadequate in conveying what I was feeling. I also do not believe that anyone else is in a position of judging the intensity. I know only that it was short-lived -- a matter of minutes.
Incidentally, the piece that I was listening to when the experience began was M'Appari. I later looked up an English translation and it does refer to a vision.
I have not returned to that "place." Three years ago, I experienced some of the euphoria and golden light, but only for a few seconds. That occurred as I awoke from a nap. I thought there was a golden glowing infant on my lap.
I knew only enough about the world's great religions to believe that they all come from the same Source. But I didn't know that my experience wasn't unique. I wasn't familiar with New Age thought (whatever that is) and I still tread carefully in that area.
But I did try to learn to meditate after that. I wasn't satisfied with the techniques that I used with meditation until the right teacher came along.
That teacher is Terry (TO) and I find it funny that he asks me to post "my" method.
TO - "Frequency". (Do it frequently, find the right frequency and some day we will see each other there.)Dave R & Hadi - There was a cute movie a while back with James Garner as a river boat gambler (the name escapes me). Anyway, at the end, he and the whole cast sang a great rendition of "Amazing Grace" - it was quite moving.Namaste'
Dave R & Hadi - There was a cute movie a while back with James Garner as a river boat gambler (the name escapes me). Anyway, at the end, he and the whole cast sang a great rendition of "Amazing Grace" - it was quite moving.
Namaste'
Hadi, the candor and insight in your posts about Grace and relationships and all the rest have been inspirational. There are so many similarities and so many differences in how our lives have progressed.Now that Cathy has asked you for it, would you favor us with a description of your Unity experience?Believe it or not, I know exactly what you meant about that abrupt change that occurred with you in the furniture-smashing and seeing yourself in the mirror. I'm sure I can't recall the circumstances in my own experience as well as you have yours, but I know similar things have happened to me. I wouldn't be surprised if all of us could connect with that to some degree. Sometimes changes take protracted periods to be noticed. Other times, they're instantly recognized. Most of mine are the slow kind."Amazing Grace" is one of my favorite songs, especially played on the pipes, and I usually choke up hearing it. I choked up reading the words, and at the choice to summarize your relationship with it. Beautiful!
Now that Cathy has asked you for it, would you favor us with a description of your Unity experience?
Believe it or not, I know exactly what you meant about that abrupt change that occurred with you in the furniture-smashing and seeing yourself in the mirror. I'm sure I can't recall the circumstances in my own experience as well as you have yours, but I know similar things have happened to me. I wouldn't be surprised if all of us could connect with that to some degree. Sometimes changes take protracted periods to be noticed. Other times, they're instantly recognized. Most of mine are the slow kind.
"Amazing Grace" is one of my favorite songs, especially played on the pipes, and I usually choke up hearing it. I choked up reading the words, and at the choice to summarize your relationship with it. Beautiful!
Same "wave" link Bob F.
Patricia - Just wanted to say thanks again for the friendship glass globe you sent several years ago. It is hanging in one of our large windows facing the mountains and the sun's rays passing through it continually send pleasing effects into the room. When it does, I think of you.Namaste', Bob
Namaste', Bob
Hadi, I appreciate so much the stories you have shared with us. For me, what I liked best was " only I limit me" and " Grace was just being Grace". I hope you always live with gratitude for all the "Graces" you have and continue to receive. You are indeed blessed. Peggy, you have also been most generous in the giving of yourself to us. Your trust is deeply appreciated. Cathy too! Namaste, All.
Wow, Hadi! Thank you for sharing so much and so candidly. Your experiences are quite fascinating and I am glad that you shared them with us. I didn't know that your Unity experience lasted so long. How could you "function" at all in the world of separation and ego while in that experience? I find the "differences" between peoples Unity experiences quite interesting. In one sense, it makes no sense at all to talk about differences when talking about Unity, but the interpretation of the experience once the person has returned to "ordinary" consciousness is quite interesting I think. The Unity experience seems to be highly individualistic. There is no way to know what exactly other people have experienced, and the Unity experience typically leaves the person at a loss of words since the experience is so far beyond words. Common themes seem to be a total loss of identifying with the ego self, a deep awareness of the interrelatedness of all things, a loss of the experience of time and a total sense of all encompassing deep spiritual love. Reactions after the experience also seem to be highly individualistic as well, but whatever the reaction it is usually life altering.
I find the "differences" between peoples Unity experiences quite interesting. In one sense, it makes no sense at all to talk about differences when talking about Unity, but the interpretation of the experience once the person has returned to "ordinary" consciousness is quite interesting I think. The Unity experience seems to be highly individualistic. There is no way to know what exactly other people have experienced, and the Unity experience typically leaves the person at a loss of words since the experience is so far beyond words. Common themes seem to be a total loss of identifying with the ego self, a deep awareness of the interrelatedness of all things, a loss of the experience of time and a total sense of all encompassing deep spiritual love. Reactions after the experience also seem to be highly individualistic as well, but whatever the reaction it is usually life altering.
Peggy - Thanks for the good wishes for my wife. I always give ger what she wants (even when she isn't recuperating) as does she for me - that is part of the reason we are karmic soul mates in this lifetime and have been married for 30 years.Cathy - Much, much better on the formatting - thanks for the dedication! It just goes to show the best things are most often the simplest.As far as successful relationships go, I think it is a matter of tying in with someone at the same awareness level and evolving at roughly the same speed. If one partner is significantly ahead or behind the other or if one evolves quicker or slower than the other, a gap develops that may be hard to overcome.TO - Peggy's quote was "location, location, location" which is right on - all we have is the present - be here now! If you are talking about the "practice, practice, practice" quote I tossed out, I was tying back in to Hadi's quote on "just meditate". I meditate two hours a day on most days and read a considerable amount. However, it is the meditation alone that is causing my advancement, the reading only explains what is going on. No one need do anything else to reach enlightenment - just "practice, practice, practice (meditation)"Namaste', Bob
Cathy - Much, much better on the formatting - thanks for the dedication! It just goes to show the best things are most often the simplest.
As far as successful relationships go, I think it is a matter of tying in with someone at the same awareness level and evolving at roughly the same speed. If one partner is significantly ahead or behind the other or if one evolves quicker or slower than the other, a gap develops that may be hard to overcome.
TO - Peggy's quote was "location, location, location" which is right on - all we have is the present - be here now! If you are talking about the "practice, practice, practice" quote I tossed out, I was tying back in to Hadi's quote on "just meditate". I meditate two hours a day on most days and read a considerable amount. However, it is the meditation alone that is causing my advancement, the reading only explains what is going on. No one need do anything else to reach enlightenment - just "practice, practice, practice (meditation)"
Continuing with the "good/bad", Prozac wouldn't be "bad" either (the affect) except it's an artificial "method" that usually involves a more stronger substance to "maintain" the affect after a while. As Ram Dass's teacher said after taking 1200 micro hits of LSD, your medicine is good, and will allow you to be with Christ for two hours, but it's better to be with Him all the time."
As Ram Dass's teacher said after taking 1200 micro hits of LSD, your medicine is good, and will allow you to be with Christ for two hours, but it's better to be with Him all the time."
{{{{Hadi}}}} thanks for sharing. I was wondering "how" you were doing "IT".I truly bow...........
I truly bow...........
If "we" can learn how to just live in THIS moment, and truly always "BE" in this moment, we will "Be" truly blessed.
I might add as well though, that "mind****ing" is also a "method", but in our culture you'd end up on prozac or something before you "achieved" "IT".
A favorite saying of mine is "sooner----or later". "Ahhhhhhhhhh Soooooooooooooooooooooo".Pegasus, once more I RESPECTFULLY request that you post your "method" here. (practice, practice, practice). Not only do I believe that many would benefit, I would like to copy it for some other people in my little square/circle of the Universe. Cathy, in this physical world (yes, the intellectual thought world) we have what is known as "duality". Every-"thing" has it's opposite.Peggy gave a good example of "it" when she told of the "good" that was going on with her grandchildren (in one post), but later came back with the "opposite"------even though there was also "good" in those opposites as well.I'm reminded of those "good/bad" stories that used to go around............maybe Geoff can come up with one for an example.I guess what I'm trying to say........and TOE hasn't been proved yet.............is that the "intellect" (ego) isn't going to "do it" for us.The "Unity" experience is BEYOND the "thinking mind". I can only remember reading about one person who achieved that "Unity Consciousness" through mind****ing himself so much, and that was Einstein.
Pegasus, once more I RESPECTFULLY request that you post your "method" here. (practice, practice, practice).
Not only do I believe that many would benefit, I would like to copy it for some other people in my little square/circle of the Universe.
Cathy, in this physical world (yes, the intellectual thought world) we have what is known as "duality". Every-"thing" has it's opposite.
Peggy gave a good example of "it" when she told of the "good" that was going on with her grandchildren (in one post), but later came back with the "opposite"------even though there was also "good" in those opposites as well.
I'm reminded of those "good/bad" stories that used to go around............maybe Geoff can come up with one for an example.
I guess what I'm trying to say........and TOE hasn't been proved yet.............is that the "intellect" (ego) isn't going to "do it" for us.
The "Unity" experience is BEYOND the "thinking mind". I can only remember reading about one person who achieved that "Unity Consciousness" through mind****ing himself so much, and that was Einstein.
Namaste' If you think you know, then you don't........BUT........"we" may "know" some "things"............ Love "IT".
If you think you know, then you don't........BUT........"we" may "know" some "things"............ Love "IT".
Peggy I'd love to hear about your experience more and what, if anything, might have precipitated it! Thanks! Cathy
Thanks!
Peggy Thanks for the tips! How am I doing? :-) Cathy
Thanks for the tips! How am I doing? :-)
Geoff, I did not realize until I read your post that one of our former Presidents must have been influenced by Zen: "Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before." -- Dwight David Eisenhower
"Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before." -- Dwight David Eisenhower
{{{Hadi!}}} Well, you certainly did not disappoint. I'm glad that someone finally asked the right question! What an incredibly beautiful tribute to Grace! Now, more than ever, I wish that I knew her. And maybe I understand you a little better. With no slight intended, how do you see your relationship as being different from a good marriage? Cathy, the Unity experience that Hadi mentioned is the kind of experience that I was asking about. As Hadi knows, his experience was different from mine. Mine was brief ( a matter of minutes) but very intense. It completely changed my understanding of spirit. It was literally years before I knew that others experienced this same overwhelming AWARENESS of Unity. When someone finally pointed me in the right direction, I learned that others not only experienced this Unity, but were unable to describe adequately the experience. That would be like trying to describe an orgasm to a seven year old. ("Well, it's like really good bubble gum...") There was another part to the experience too. There was the feeling that my self was about to be extinguished and that when that happened, all (or nothing, as the case may be) would be perfect forever. I've told others here about it so many times that they can recite the story. So I will send it to you in email at the right time.
With no slight intended, how do you see your relationship as being different from a good marriage?
Cathy, the Unity experience that Hadi mentioned is the kind of experience that I was asking about. As Hadi knows, his experience was different from mine. Mine was brief ( a matter of minutes) but very intense. It completely changed my understanding of spirit. It was literally years before I knew that others experienced this same overwhelming AWARENESS of Unity.
When someone finally pointed me in the right direction, I learned that others not only experienced this Unity, but were unable to describe adequately the experience. That would be like trying to describe an orgasm to a seven year old. ("Well, it's like really good bubble gum...")
There was another part to the experience too. There was the feeling that my self was about to be extinguished and that when that happened, all (or nothing, as the case may be) would be perfect forever.
I've told others here about it so many times that they can recite the story. So I will send it to you in email at the right time.
Peggy ;)Hadi I enjoyed reading your post. October must be a good month to start relationships.
Hadi I enjoyed reading your post. October must be a good month to start relationships.
Geoff I've seen that quote before--thanks! I'm not really a black or white thinker in most regards....but I think that that's what it boils down to in this philosophy issue and my confusion :-) Scott Peck once said that all great truths are paradoxical--or something like that...CWG refers to Divine Dichotomies :-) So what's it like at the opposite end---would that be the gray side or the rainbow view? ;-) Peace! Cathy
I've seen that quote before--thanks! I'm not really a black or white thinker in most regards....but I think that that's what it boils down to in this philosophy issue and my confusion :-) Scott Peck once said that all great truths are paradoxical--or something like that...CWG refers to Divine Dichotomies :-)
So what's it like at the opposite end---would that be the gray side or the rainbow view? ;-)
Peace!
HADI-Interesting life you've led :-) I'm sure others may know about your Unity event, but could you tell me about it? Or direct me to a date in the archives? 18 months is a long time! Was the return to "regular" reality abrupt or gradual? What do you mean exactly by the 4th dimension? It seems odd to me that you would "come back" after such an extended period...I've heard of people having mystical experiences and then the feeling fading, but I always assumed it was a rather brief affair?I can empathize with your feeling like Grace sometimes gets in your way of God because she wants/demands attention from you...and I think that that is a real issue for people in relationships...but I also think that we must first turn to God...we might then find that attending to our loved one is in our best interest in terms of growth...or not...I'm certainly not suggesting that I know what's what for you :-) For me, I was the one that needed to outgrow being attended to...my hubby is fairly low-maintenance ;-)Thanks for your candidness!Cathy
Interesting life you've led :-) I'm sure others may know about your Unity event, but could you tell me about it? Or direct me to a date in the archives? 18 months is a long time! Was the return to "regular" reality abrupt or gradual? What do you mean exactly by the 4th dimension? It seems odd to me that you would "come back" after such an extended period...I've heard of people having mystical experiences and then the feeling fading, but I always assumed it was a rather brief affair?
I can empathize with your feeling like Grace sometimes gets in your way of God because she wants/demands attention from you...and I think that that is a real issue for people in relationships...but I also think that we must first turn to God...we might then find that attending to our loved one is in our best interest in terms of growth...or not...I'm certainly not suggesting that I know what's what for you :-) For me, I was the one that needed to outgrow being attended to...my hubby is fairly low-maintenance ;-)
Thanks for your candidness!
chandi Good question, about finding our unique talent and our unique way of expressing it. It is something I have asked myself for a long time. Basicaly it made nuts never finding a answer, but today, looking back at what I have gone through in the last five years, I believe that God prepares us and when we are ready the answer comes to us naturaly. Please forgive my speeling mistakes, but my education was in french.
Hadi, Thanks for sharing :) I'll read it more slowly once I get home from the library ...
Cathy About 'black & white' thinking ... I spent a large part of (this) lifetime in that place - now I am in near permanent residence at the 'opposite' end of the spectrum. :) I used to get right into Zen even when I was an 'atheist' ... here's one you may like (or not as the case maybe) - "Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise" - Zen saying Namaste
About 'black & white' thinking ... I spent a large part of (this) lifetime in that place - now I am in near permanent residence at the 'opposite' end of the spectrum. :)
I used to get right into Zen even when I was an 'atheist' ... here's one you may like (or not as the case maybe) -
"Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise" - Zen saying Namaste
Namaste
I guess I’ve been with Grace the longest because I’ve learned the most from her. Grace recognised the Spiritual dimension of me a long time before I was able to acknowledge it. She also inspired and drew out the creative side of me. Helped nourish and nurture that whole area of my personality and vision which had always been lingering just below the surface, imprisoned by false beliefs and ideals. In this respect, Grace has done a great deal to bring God into my consciousness. Grace has also been very challenging. An assertive woman with tremendous talent of her own, she won’t let me get away with much. She won’t be pushed around. She is also very demanding. Being an actress, Grace demands a lot of "attention", and this was a big lesson I have had to learn again and again in all my relationships, not just the romantic ones. That is to give people proper attention. In the fourteen years we’ve been together we’ve had maybe four big arguments. BIG ARGUMENTS. The rest of the time we just get on. We’re each others best friend and we respect each other. We have also been completely loyal. Most people find this absurd these days, that a couple should be true to each other. People don’t believe me. Because of the guy I was before Grace, they just don’t accept it. They think I’m lying so as to have the high moral ground with them. Which I don’t. I think it’s perfectly normal for people to screw around based on the conditioning they’ve had. I just managed to snap out of the level 1, 2, 3 human consciousness. It is all the more remarkable that we have managed this considering the opportunities there have been, and the really difficult times we have had financially. Despite all the treasures which come from knowing Grace, I have remained relatively poor throughout our relationship, and this is in contrast to before. I’m amazed she has endured and put up with it, really. She could do so much better in terms of security than to be with me. I think our similar careers and the ambitions within those careers were helpful and also very compatible. We could talk about each other’s work which wasn’t at all similar but was related. So we could relate. That said, our personalities are very different. Yin and yang. Grace is very extrovert and open and social. She likes company, parties, chit chat, she is vivacious. She gets bored with her own company and can easily feel lonely. I on the other hand am very much the opposite. Quiet, laid-back, introspective, serene. Grace walks real fast I stroll real slow. She likes to dance, I like to watch. In the last three years my encounters with the sixth sense and with the fourth dimension have accelerated my personal evolution and it has been difficult. At first it was difficult for Grace. When the Unity event happened she must have felt I’d lost my mind. I was a bit of a space cadet in verbal overload for a while. But as she hung in there she began to realise that something really Spiritual and life changing had happened to me and she began to listen. In fact it was Grace who brought Deepak to me. She was working for a magazine at the time and came across the Seven Spiritual Laws of Success which had been sent for review. She browsed it and recognised the similarities with the stuff I’d been ranting on about and thought I might find it interesting. Of course I instantly clicked with the book and found in his words someone who seemed to have had a similar Revelation as the one I had been exposed to. It was at this time that I came to the forum. I was still on fire with the Essence. I remained in unity consciousness for about eighteen months and experienced many strange and wonderful phenomenon. It has also been hard for me because I have wanted to go to the cave, to the mountain and to experience greater solitude and go deeper into my Self. Like Buddha to go off into the world. To Master some of what has been revealed to me. In this regard I sometimes feel that Grace gets in the way. She is still as demanding as ever even though I am now also trying to give my attention to God. I have had plenty of frustration in this regard, but I am advanced enough to recognise that only I limit me. She is not responsible. She is just "being" Grace. I also think of these frustrations as learning exercises. Part of the journey. For one thing there’s the adage "wherever you go, there you are". And I also have to remind myself that I have already experienced what Buddha and Jesus went searching for. So that isn’t really my problem. The problem is going out there and using it, teaching it, becoming IT. Perhaps it’s just a fear of success, perhaps of failure, which holds me back. But deep down I feel that if I go out and try to fulfil my destiny my attention will be elsewhere and it will be entirely up to Grace to hold on. And she may choose not to. As the song goes: Amazing Grace! (how sweet the sound) That saved a wretch like me! I once was lost, but now am found, Was blind, but now I see. 'Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear, And Grace my fears reliev'd; How precious did that grace appear, The hour I first believ'd! Thro' many dangers, toils and snares, I have already come; 'Tis Grace has brought me safe thus far, And Grace will lead me home.
Grace has also been very challenging. An assertive woman with tremendous talent of her own, she won’t let me get away with much. She won’t be pushed around. She is also very demanding. Being an actress, Grace demands a lot of "attention", and this was a big lesson I have had to learn again and again in all my relationships, not just the romantic ones. That is to give people proper attention.
In the fourteen years we’ve been together we’ve had maybe four big arguments. BIG ARGUMENTS. The rest of the time we just get on. We’re each others best friend and we respect each other. We have also been completely loyal. Most people find this absurd these days, that a couple should be true to each other. People don’t believe me. Because of the guy I was before Grace, they just don’t accept it. They think I’m lying so as to have the high moral ground with them. Which I don’t. I think it’s perfectly normal for people to screw around based on the conditioning they’ve had. I just managed to snap out of the level 1, 2, 3 human consciousness. It is all the more remarkable that we have managed this considering the opportunities there have been, and the really difficult times we have had financially. Despite all the treasures which come from knowing Grace, I have remained relatively poor throughout our relationship, and this is in contrast to before. I’m amazed she has endured and put up with it, really. She could do so much better in terms of security than to be with me.
I think our similar careers and the ambitions within those careers were helpful and also very compatible. We could talk about each other’s work which wasn’t at all similar but was related. So we could relate. That said, our personalities are very different. Yin and yang. Grace is very extrovert and open and social. She likes company, parties, chit chat, she is vivacious. She gets bored with her own company and can easily feel lonely. I on the other hand am very much the opposite. Quiet, laid-back, introspective, serene. Grace walks real fast I stroll real slow. She likes to dance, I like to watch.
In the last three years my encounters with the sixth sense and with the fourth dimension have accelerated my personal evolution and it has been difficult. At first it was difficult for Grace. When the Unity event happened she must have felt I’d lost my mind. I was a bit of a space cadet in verbal overload for a while. But as she hung in there she began to realise that something really Spiritual and life changing had happened to me and she began to listen. In fact it was Grace who brought Deepak to me. She was working for a magazine at the time and came across the Seven Spiritual Laws of Success which had been sent for review. She browsed it and recognised the similarities with the stuff I’d been ranting on about and thought I might find it interesting. Of course I instantly clicked with the book and found in his words someone who seemed to have had a similar Revelation as the one I had been exposed to. It was at this time that I came to the forum. I was still on fire with the Essence. I remained in unity consciousness for about eighteen months and experienced many strange and wonderful phenomenon.
As the song goes:
Amazing Grace! (how sweet the sound) That saved a wretch like me! I once was lost, but now am found, Was blind, but now I see.
'Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear, And Grace my fears reliev'd; How precious did that grace appear, The hour I first believ'd!
Thro' many dangers, toils and snares, I have already come; 'Tis Grace has brought me safe thus far, And Grace will lead me home.
On Grace & relationships Okay, you asked for it. Grace and I have been together for fourteen years this October. We make our official anniversary Halloween. I was twenty eight years old at the time and a young film executive. I had been involved in five relationships prior to Grace. By "relationship" I mean a romantic liaison in which I cohabited or participated for a year or longer. In between I have had many brief liaisons, holiday romances and such. I emphasise these other relationships because I cannot look at my present relationship in isolation. Not, at least, in the context of Cathy’s original question which was about one-on-one relationships. I have learned from all my relationships, be they one-night-stands or long term love affairs. They have all contributed to defining me. Ultimately I think this is the purpose of "relationship", to make one know one’s Self. In knowing and discovering ourselves we eventually come to know God. It is inevitable. However, most people tend to look outwards rather than inwards. They see the other and not a reflection of themselves. Introspection is rare, especially in the young who have been gathering all of their impressions from the outside world and have never even been told of the existence of an Inner World beyond the realm of fantasy. My experience of "first love" came between the ages of sixteen and seventeen when I fell deeply in love with Kim, a girl at school I fell for as soon as I saw her. I wouldn’t call this puppy love. I’d gone past that. I’d had several girlfriends already. The thing between Kim and I was intense. It was the first time I had come in contact with love the "energy". Before Kim love was really just a word, a sentiment I had heard and read about. Now it was this divine blissful connection between me and another. It was something I had no idea how to handle and it all ended in tears and heartbreak. With hindsight I can see that one of the big problems I had back then was my conditioning. Having come from a very chauvinistic male dominant background in Iran and from a fairly loveless family in terms of the relationship between my mother and father, I was very ill-equipped. And there was no one I could really talk to. My older brother was already at university, my sisters were kids, my mother was a "woman" and my conditioning along with the type of relationship I had with my mother meant I couldn’t really talk to her, a woman, either. My friends were "boys". I was way ahead of them in the sexual liaison department and I was also a "leader" amongst them, so it was difficult to even consider approaching them with any weakness. My Ego wouldn’t have it. My dad who has largely been absent in my life was nevertheless around during this time, but he just called me a "baby" and "childish". He was very much from the "big boys don’t cry" school. He was also a very insensitive man for whom women were no more than sex objects or glorified maids. To my father women were just dressing. They had no brains and shouldn’t try to pretend they did. Alas his conditioning was worse than mine. So, when the ground opened up I fell into the big hole and became very sad on the inside. On the outside I went into "denial" and pulled up all the emotional barriers. I guess I thought I didn’t ever want to feel like that again. Never. For the next four or five years I played the field. Learned how to control relationships. How to make girls fall in love with me, and then I’d drop them as soon as they got too serious. At one time I had three lovers. One in my home town, one in my college town and one in a seaside town. I was juggling these relationships while emphasising to all of them, "detachment". Non-commitment. Independence. Today, I know that was just fear, masked behind the facade of "no one will own me". Of course I didn’t think of such things back then. I was just so popular, so desirable. So perfect. Then one day a lecturer at the Art College where I was studying, a man for whom I had some respect and whose opinions were supposed to be worth listening to, observed: "women are just masturbation to you aren’t they?" If it had been anyone else I would have knocked his lights out. I was a bit of a karate expert and that was part of my armour. No one who knew me would dare to say such things because ultimately I could kick their ass. But this was my lecturer. This was a teacher. So I laughed. His statement was ridiculous. He didn’t even know me, how could he say such a thing when he didn’t even know me as a friend? But that evening I went to my digs, which I shared with five other fellow students, and I trashed some furniture with a release of frustration and kicked the bathroom door right off! (That pissed off my room mates no end) Then I looked in the mirror and for the first time I saw myself the way I was, and I was horrified. And then something strange happened. In just a few seconds I changed. It was as if whoever had been in charge on the inside had just departed, fled, and someone new had entered this vessel. On the inside I changed. I had a mini ego-death. And believe me, that particular Ego had to go. That was the mask of my father’s conditioning. That was the guy for whom women were just "sex-objects". I had become my dad. I remember he exact moment the Hand-over happened from one ego center to another. Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t a horrible guy. I really was very popular, I really was well liked, but my motives, personally, privately, had all been self serving. Egotistical. In fact, when I look back, I’ve got to admire that version of me, that Hadi, for having the courage and the sensitivity to recognise and "accept" what he saw in the mirror at such a young age. I had hurt so many young women while I had remained untouched. All my former girlfriends resented me. Felt used by me. And they were right. I had cultivated love, but I had not experienced it myself. I had lost "love". I had lost touch with it. What was it? I spent the next few years throwing myself into my emotions. Into love. Into attention and sensitivity to the other. I went through a couple of relationships, almost back to back, and ended up with the ideal "model" I had created in my mind some years earlier, before my transition to the then "new me". She was beautiful, educated at good schools, fantastic body, "perfect hostess", perfect bit of trimming for the old Ego. I had manifested that perfect "ideal" only to discover I had already outgrown her by the time she manifested. Life is full of irony. After a year or so I finally managed to unmanifest her, unconsciously. I manipulated reality, I manipulated her, I put my attention elsewhere and soon she was gone. I had recognised that, while she fulfilled a certain "ideal", that ideal was shallow. I had a lot of conflict and self evaluation through the whole affair. I knew what I was doing, but because of the conflict with the old me, the guy who had this pattern of cultivating a romance only to massage his own ego and then dropping the object of his romance, I didn’t want to go back into that pattern. Or at least I didn’t want "to be seen" to do so. Instead, I just let the relationship die from neglect. I didn’t like myself for that either, but at least I didn’t have to just spring it on them like before. It was about this time that I started to reflect on the strangeness of "love". I also had a new "model" in my mind. I was now on the search for Richard Bach’s "Soul Mate" ideal. I had read Illusions and Siddhartha some years earlier and it was beginning to dawn on me that we create our realities. I also realised that love was not in the other person, it was in me all along. I could generate it and I could switch it off. Not easily, but I could. So it was no longer something precious to be found out there in another. Because I had experienced it with Kim, I knew what it was, and when it came about a few times, I realised I was creating it. I was working in films full time by now and the film business tends to throw small groups of strangers together in intense and often intimate situations. I enjoyed a string of romances which were somehow accepted by both sides as limited, limited to packages of time, and they were all the more relaxed and un-pressured because of that, while also being intense, trying to devour as much of each other as possible within the allocated time. I learned a great deal about myself during these relationships with often interesting women. But I hadn’t found my soul-mate and, along with my limited understanding of love, I came to the conclusion that it was best to go without a "model" and simply love whoever came into my life. I had experientially learned to give up my models, my "expectations". I didn’t think of it quite in these terms then, but that’s what I was intuitively doing. I no longer knew what I wanted, so I said to God, "you choose". By now I was ready to just kick back and enjoy the ride which was ahead. Ambition was looming large and I began to build empires in my head while networking hard on the ground. I was working hard and playing harder. I had a hard-core of buddies, men and women, and we were out on the town every night. I met Grace at one of our regular drinking haunts.
Okay, you asked for it. Grace and I have been together for fourteen years this October. We make our official anniversary Halloween. I was twenty eight years old at the time and a young film executive. I had been involved in five relationships prior to Grace. By "relationship" I mean a romantic liaison in which I cohabited or participated for a year or longer. In between I have had many brief liaisons, holiday romances and such.
I emphasise these other relationships because I cannot look at my present relationship in isolation. Not, at least, in the context of Cathy’s original question which was about one-on-one relationships. I have learned from all my relationships, be they one-night-stands or long term love affairs. They have all contributed to defining me. Ultimately I think this is the purpose of "relationship", to make one know one’s Self. In knowing and discovering ourselves we eventually come to know God. It is inevitable. However, most people tend to look outwards rather than inwards. They see the other and not a reflection of themselves. Introspection is rare, especially in the young who have been gathering all of their impressions from the outside world and have never even been told of the existence of an Inner World beyond the realm of fantasy.
My experience of "first love" came between the ages of sixteen and seventeen when I fell deeply in love with Kim, a girl at school I fell for as soon as I saw her. I wouldn’t call this puppy love. I’d gone past that. I’d had several girlfriends already. The thing between Kim and I was intense. It was the first time I had come in contact with love the "energy". Before Kim love was really just a word, a sentiment I had heard and read about. Now it was this divine blissful connection between me and another. It was something I had no idea how to handle and it all ended in tears and heartbreak.
With hindsight I can see that one of the big problems I had back then was my conditioning. Having come from a very chauvinistic male dominant background in Iran and from a fairly loveless family in terms of the relationship between my mother and father, I was very ill-equipped. And there was no one I could really talk to. My older brother was already at university, my sisters were kids, my mother was a "woman" and my conditioning along with the type of relationship I had with my mother meant I couldn’t really talk to her, a woman, either. My friends were "boys". I was way ahead of them in the sexual liaison department and I was also a "leader" amongst them, so it was difficult to even consider approaching them with any weakness. My Ego wouldn’t have it. My dad who has largely been absent in my life was nevertheless around during this time, but he just called me a "baby" and "childish". He was very much from the "big boys don’t cry" school. He was also a very insensitive man for whom women were no more than sex objects or glorified maids. To my father women were just dressing. They had no brains and shouldn’t try to pretend they did. Alas his conditioning was worse than mine.
So, when the ground opened up I fell into the big hole and became very sad on the inside. On the outside I went into "denial" and pulled up all the emotional barriers. I guess I thought I didn’t ever want to feel like that again. Never. For the next four or five years I played the field. Learned how to control relationships. How to make girls fall in love with me, and then I’d drop them as soon as they got too serious. At one time I had three lovers. One in my home town, one in my college town and one in a seaside town. I was juggling these relationships while emphasising to all of them, "detachment". Non-commitment. Independence. Today, I know that was just fear, masked behind the facade of "no one will own me". Of course I didn’t think of such things back then. I was just so popular, so desirable. So perfect.
Then one day a lecturer at the Art College where I was studying, a man for whom I had some respect and whose opinions were supposed to be worth listening to, observed: "women are just masturbation to you aren’t they?" If it had been anyone else I would have knocked his lights out. I was a bit of a karate expert and that was part of my armour. No one who knew me would dare to say such things because ultimately I could kick their ass. But this was my lecturer. This was a teacher. So I laughed. His statement was ridiculous. He didn’t even know me, how could he say such a thing when he didn’t even know me as a friend? But that evening I went to my digs, which I shared with five other fellow students, and I trashed some furniture with a release of frustration and kicked the bathroom door right off! (That pissed off my room mates no end) Then I looked in the mirror and for the first time I saw myself the way I was, and I was horrified. And then something strange happened. In just a few seconds I changed. It was as if whoever had been in charge on the inside had just departed, fled, and someone new had entered this vessel. On the inside I changed. I had a mini ego-death. And believe me, that particular Ego had to go. That was the mask of my father’s conditioning. That was the guy for whom women were just "sex-objects". I had become my dad. I remember he exact moment the Hand-over happened from one ego center to another.
Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t a horrible guy. I really was very popular, I really was well liked, but my motives, personally, privately, had all been self serving. Egotistical. In fact, when I look back, I’ve got to admire that version of me, that Hadi, for having the courage and the sensitivity to recognise and "accept" what he saw in the mirror at such a young age. I had hurt so many young women while I had remained untouched. All my former girlfriends resented me. Felt used by me. And they were right. I had cultivated love, but I had not experienced it myself. I had lost "love". I had lost touch with it. What was it?
I spent the next few years throwing myself into my emotions. Into love. Into attention and sensitivity to the other. I went through a couple of relationships, almost back to back, and ended up with the ideal "model" I had created in my mind some years earlier, before my transition to the then "new me". She was beautiful, educated at good schools, fantastic body, "perfect hostess", perfect bit of trimming for the old Ego. I had manifested that perfect "ideal" only to discover I had already outgrown her by the time she manifested. Life is full of irony.
After a year or so I finally managed to unmanifest her, unconsciously. I manipulated reality, I manipulated her, I put my attention elsewhere and soon she was gone. I had recognised that, while she fulfilled a certain "ideal", that ideal was shallow. I had a lot of conflict and self evaluation through the whole affair. I knew what I was doing, but because of the conflict with the old me, the guy who had this pattern of cultivating a romance only to massage his own ego and then dropping the object of his romance, I didn’t want to go back into that pattern. Or at least I didn’t want "to be seen" to do so. Instead, I just let the relationship die from neglect. I didn’t like myself for that either, but at least I didn’t have to just spring it on them like before.
It was about this time that I started to reflect on the strangeness of "love". I also had a new "model" in my mind. I was now on the search for Richard Bach’s "Soul Mate" ideal. I had read Illusions and Siddhartha some years earlier and it was beginning to dawn on me that we create our realities. I also realised that love was not in the other person, it was in me all along. I could generate it and I could switch it off. Not easily, but I could. So it was no longer something precious to be found out there in another. Because I had experienced it with Kim, I knew what it was, and when it came about a few times, I realised I was creating it.
I was working in films full time by now and the film business tends to throw small groups of strangers together in intense and often intimate situations. I enjoyed a string of romances which were somehow accepted by both sides as limited, limited to packages of time, and they were all the more relaxed and un-pressured because of that, while also being intense, trying to devour as much of each other as possible within the allocated time. I learned a great deal about myself during these relationships with often interesting women. But I hadn’t found my soul-mate and, along with my limited understanding of love, I came to the conclusion that it was best to go without a "model" and simply love whoever came into my life. I had experientially learned to give up my models, my "expectations". I didn’t think of it quite in these terms then, but that’s what I was intuitively doing. I no longer knew what I wanted, so I said to God, "you choose".
By now I was ready to just kick back and enjoy the ride which was ahead. Ambition was looming large and I began to build empires in my head while networking hard on the ground. I was working hard and playing harder. I had a hard-core of buddies, men and women, and we were out on the town every night. I met Grace at one of our regular drinking haunts.
Oops! Typo! Make that above the eyes ;-)...C
Great little story :-) Now we are ready to look at something pretty special: It's a duck riding the ocean a hundred feet beyond the surf. No, it isn't a gull. A gull always has a raucous touch about him. This is some sort of a duck, and he cuddles into the swells. He isn't cold, and he's thinking things over. There is a big heaving in the Atlantic, and he is part of it. He looks a bit like a mandarin, or the Lord Buddha meditating under the Bo tree. But he has hardly enough above the yes to be a philosopher. He has poise, however, which is what philosophers must have. He can rest while the Atlantic heaves, because he rests in the Atlantic. Probably he doesn't know how large the Atlantic is, and neither do you. But he *realizes* it. And what does he do? I ask you. He sits down in it. He reposes in it as if it were infinity--which it is. That is religion, and the duck has it. He has made himself a part of the boundless, by easing himself into it just where it touches him. Donald C. Babcock
Now we are ready to look at something pretty special: It's a duck riding the ocean a hundred feet beyond the surf. No, it isn't a gull. A gull always has a raucous touch about him.
This is some sort of a duck, and he cuddles into the swells. He isn't cold, and he's thinking things over. There is a big heaving in the Atlantic, and he is part of it.
He looks a bit like a mandarin, or the Lord Buddha meditating under the Bo tree. But he has hardly enough above the yes to be a philosopher. He has poise, however, which is what philosophers must have. He can rest while the Atlantic heaves, because he rests in the Atlantic.
Probably he doesn't know how large the Atlantic is, and neither do you. But he *realizes* it. And what does he do? I ask you. He sits down in it. He reposes in it as if it were infinity--which it is.
That is religion, and the duck has it. He has made himself a part of the boundless, by easing himself into it just where it touches him.
Donald C. Babcock
Hi Peggy, No I have never experienced another reality, other than my dreams...have you? I wouldn't be scared if such an experience came to me, I don't think, but I am not searching for such. I had read about out-of-body experiences long ago--sounded cool :-) I know what you mean about Hora's view on sex--though I understand that it does confirm that we are in a body...which is, I think his point about experience as a whole. His gist is for becoming aware of being primarily spiritual beings vs beings in a body....I take this to mean by not being attached to our self-as-individuals/body experiences vs completely ignoring them--how would THAT work? :-) I suppose this is akin to the Zen practice of mindfulness but from an opposite stance?Peace! Cathy
No I have never experienced another reality, other than my dreams...have you? I wouldn't be scared if such an experience came to me, I don't think, but I am not searching for such. I had read about out-of-body experiences long ago--sounded cool :-)
I know what you mean about Hora's view on sex--though I understand that it does confirm that we are in a body...which is, I think his point about experience as a whole. His gist is for becoming aware of being primarily spiritual beings vs beings in a body....I take this to mean by not being attached to our self-as-individuals/body experiences vs completely ignoring them--how would THAT work? :-) I suppose this is akin to the Zen practice of mindfulness but from an opposite stance?
Cathy, congratulations on your paragraphs! Have you ever experienced another level of reality that was as different from day to day reality as dreams are? Interesting that Hora sees sex as a dualistic experience. I would have thought that really good sex is as close to Unity Consciousness as a person can get on this level of reality.
Interesting that Hora sees sex as a dualistic experience. I would have thought that really good sex is as close to Unity Consciousness as a person can get on this level of reality.
Hi all Not meaning to hog all the air time, but I'm in an "on" phase right now :-) Came across this while browsing through Whole Child/Whole Parent by Polly Berends: "Love is not the coming together of self and other, of clown and light (an example she had given), but rather the coming to light of the oneness of both with the force and the goodness of light. Love-intelligence expresses itself through the clown and bulb, through everyone in unique ways, as seeing and as illumination, as intelligence and love. And through its oneness with the light each life is fulfilled and enhanced and thereby enhamces the life of the other. The awakened clown through seeing sheds light on the value and worth, the goodness and purpose, of the bulb. The bulb through shining sheds light on the value, the worth, the goodness and purpose of the clown. And both express the one great fact and force and goodness of the light." Hmmmmm...Cathy
Not meaning to hog all the air time, but I'm in an "on" phase right now :-)
Came across this while browsing through Whole Child/Whole Parent by Polly Berends: "Love is not the coming together of self and other, of clown and light (an example she had given), but rather the coming to light of the oneness of both with the force and the goodness of light. Love-intelligence expresses itself through the clown and bulb, through everyone in unique ways, as seeing and as illumination, as intelligence and love. And through its oneness with the light each life is fulfilled and enhanced and thereby enhamces the life of the other. The awakened clown through seeing sheds light on the value and worth, the goodness and purpose, of the bulb. The bulb through shining sheds light on the value, the worth, the goodness and purpose of the clown. And both express the one great fact and force and goodness of the light."
Hmmmmm...Cathy
BOB FThe previous paragraphed post is dedicated to you ;-) C
The previous paragraphed post is dedicated to you ;-)
C
Peggy Thanks for the tip--we'll see if it works :-) Yes, I would like to learn a bit more--mostly paragraphs and bold type are the things I'd use...and hopefully, I'm typing in paragraphs right now! I didn't see the "view" thing to press on? As far as how my husband related to the changes in me...no, I don't think it changed much. Except that he was probably thankful that I wasn't trying to analyze our communication etc...all the time ;-) He's very different than I am in many ways, but that has been a blessing, as I discussed--it's not always the easiest thing though :-) As for examples of differences, one that readily comes to mind is the one about what Geoff just posted--sex...CWG states that sex is to be celebrated etc...whereas Hora says that bodily sensations of whatever form are self-confirmatory ideations and limit us to this relative dualistic experience vs realization of Reality, the realm of the absolute. (Though I don't know what he proposes for people that are married, or how he explains why we were ever put into bodies in the first place :-)) Another difference is that CWG talks more about personal creation of our lives whereas Hora talks about the way to go being becoming receptive to divine guidance--or Love_Intelligence-one strikes me as more active, the other more receptive... I do think that we can come to a coherent whole--I think that is the mastery level...though Hora had a cute zen quote about a wise man who was approached about the meaning of life...he replied "Life is like a river.." the seeker said "Is that all?!" and the wise man said "Oh, it's not?" The point being not to become attached to ideas---which is I guess what I am doing ;-) Wanting to know the big answers :-) CWG covers all the big questions really, and offers answers that make sense to me. But I tend to lean toward the idea of being receptive to wisdom vs consciously choosing--which seems like ego work...though I suppose at some point that might not be true?? As far as various levels of reality...yes, I think that's the case, but I also think there is some ultimate truth--perhaps not in a stagnant sense, but as far as how things work. And I see CWG and Hora and Deepak as addressing this larger truth. Namaste! Cathy PS I have considered that much of this is semantics...e.g.the idea of us creating our world can be seen to be essentially the same thing as becoming receptive to divine inspiration in that it is a conscious choice to turn from our ego ideas to a higher source---and CWG talks about choosing our highest vision of Who We Are??? Sigh...pitiful, eh? :-)
Thanks for the tip--we'll see if it works :-) Yes, I would like to learn a bit more--mostly paragraphs and bold type are the things I'd use...and hopefully, I'm typing in paragraphs right now! I didn't see the "view" thing to press on?
As far as how my husband related to the changes in me...no, I don't think it changed much. Except that he was probably thankful that I wasn't trying to analyze our communication etc...all the time ;-) He's very different than I am in many ways, but that has been a blessing, as I discussed--it's not always the easiest thing though :-)
As for examples of differences, one that readily comes to mind is the one about what Geoff just posted--sex...CWG states that sex is to be celebrated etc...whereas Hora says that bodily sensations of whatever form are self-confirmatory ideations and limit us to this relative dualistic experience vs realization of Reality, the realm of the absolute. (Though I don't know what he proposes for people that are married, or how he explains why we were ever put into bodies in the first place :-))
Another difference is that CWG talks more about personal creation of our lives whereas Hora talks about the way to go being becoming receptive to divine guidance--or Love_Intelligence-one strikes me as more active, the other more receptive...
I do think that we can come to a coherent whole--I think that is the mastery level...though Hora had a cute zen quote about a wise man who was approached about the meaning of life...he replied "Life is like a river.." the seeker said "Is that all?!" and the wise man said "Oh, it's not?" The point being not to become attached to ideas---which is I guess what I am doing ;-) Wanting to know the big answers :-) CWG covers all the big questions really, and offers answers that make sense to me. But I tend to lean toward the idea of being receptive to wisdom vs consciously choosing--which seems like ego work...though I suppose at some point that might not be true??
As far as various levels of reality...yes, I think that's the case, but I also think there is some ultimate truth--perhaps not in a stagnant sense, but as far as how things work. And I see CWG and Hora and Deepak as addressing this larger truth.
PS I have considered that much of this is semantics...e.g.the idea of us creating our world can be seen to be essentially the same thing as becoming receptive to divine inspiration in that it is a conscious choice to turn from our ego ideas to a higher source---and CWG talks about choosing our highest vision of Who We Are??? Sigh...pitiful, eh? :-)
Cathy, can you give an example of some of the differences that you see in the philosophies? Do you think that we can ever put it all together in a coherent "whole"? Do you believe in varying levels of reality where something can seem contradictory but not really be so?
My comment about the "dumbest thing I ever said" was in reference to the things I said about my grandchildren -- not about the butt-kicking contest. I realized that even the things I described had elements of sadness in them -- African Americans who couldn't afford private schools, a violent movie, and a dad who would spend $700 on a CD!!!
Cathy, I had no trouble at all absorbing what you wrote! My relationship is a lot more like yours than you might think. I'm curious. When you began to change how you viewed the relationship, did you see changes in the way your husband related to you? Would you like to learn how to make paragraphs, italics, bold type and color by using html? It's really not hard at all. (I don't even know what "html" stands for.) I would be happy to show you in email because it is easier there. In the meantime, if you see something that you want to know how to do, just click on "View" at the top of your screen. Then click "Source." Then when a something comes up on the screen, scroll down about halfway. You will see our words that we type and some other symbols. Some of these symbols we make ourselves and some are done automatically. The most helpful one is to type a "<" and then a "p" and then a ">" . That will start a new paragraph. (Don't type the quotation marks though -- just the three symbols/letters.) You can experiment here if you like to see what works. I don't think anyone would mind. Or you could use the "Preview" button to see if it works like you want it to. :-)
I'm curious. When you began to change how you viewed the relationship, did you see changes in the way your husband related to you?
Would you like to learn how to make paragraphs, italics, bold type and color by using html? It's really not hard at all. (I don't even know what "html" stands for.) I would be happy to show you in email because it is easier there.
In the meantime, if you see something that you want to know how to do, just click on "View" at the top of your screen. Then click "Source." Then when a something comes up on the screen, scroll down about halfway. You will see our words that we type and some other symbols. Some of these symbols we make ourselves and some are done automatically.
The most helpful one is to type a "<" and then a "p" and then a ">" . That will start a new paragraph. (Don't type the quotation marks though -- just the three symbols/letters.)
You can experiment here if you like to see what works. I don't think anyone would mind. Or you could use the "Preview" button to see if it works like you want it to.
:-)
Hi all, Quick question...Geoff's excerpt from CWG reminded me of one of my perrenial difficulties, and I wondered how you all approach this issue--I have trouble assimilating all the philosophical ideas I have read into a coherent whole :-) I think I have gleaned some wisdom over the years--as I talked about in my "relationship" post...but I still feel confused much of the time---the basic ideas are there, but the specifics as portrayed by Thomas Hora or CWG or Deepak---are where I get hung up. I see many similarities in these works...but some differences as well....and so when I am in the midst of living, I get befuddled as to how "I" *should* view the circumstance!! I tend to just step back from things, knowing there is more to know---sorta suspend judgement kinds stance...but I'd like to move beyond that...anyway, I hope this makes sense--that you understand my question, and thanks in advance for your input! BTW, if you're gonna say take what makes sense from something and leave the rest--I respect that but have trouble with it :-) I guess in this respect, I may be stuck in black and white thinking...but it seems to me the perspectives mentioned are "complete" and taking pieces here and there isn't such a great idea....? Peace! Cathy
GEOFF--I've read CWG 1,2,3, and 4--yes, there's 4, though the 4th is called Friendship With God. A 5th book is due out in Oct called Communion With God, and I believe there is to be a 6th book as well (it mentions this in FWG--but I don't recall exactly what it said.) They are all very good, I think :-) Cathy
I was just flicking through Conversations with God last night and came across this little section which ties in with much of the recent discussion which I've enjoyed here at the world-famous Chopra Forum ... The moral codes, religious constrictions, social taboos and emotional conventions you have placed around sex (and, by the way, around love - and all of life) have made it virtually impossible for you to celebrate your being. From the beginning of time all man has ever wanted is to love and be loved. And from the beginning of time man has done everything in his power to make it imopossible to do that. Sex is an extraordinary expression of love - love of another, love of Self, love of life. You ought to therefore love it! (And you do - you just can't tell anyone you do; you don't dare show how much you love it or you'll be called a pervert. Yet this is the idea that is perverted.) In our next book, we shall look at sex much more closely; explore its dynamics in greater detail, for this is an experience and an issue of sweeping implications on a global scale. For now - and for you, personally - simply know this: I have given you nothing shameful, least of all your very body and its functions. There is no need to hide your body or its functions - nor your love of them, and of each other. Your television programs think nothing of showing naked violence but shrink from showing naked love. Your whole society reflects that priority. 12. Is there life on other planets? Have we been visited by it? Are we being observed now? Will we see evidence - irrevocable and indisputable - of extraterrestrial life in our lifetime? Does each form of life have its own God? Are you the God of it all? Yes to the first part. Yes to the second. Yes to the third. I cannot answer the fourth part, since that would require me to predict the future - something I am not going to do We will however talk a great deal more about this thing called the future in Book Two - and we'll talk about extraterrestrial life and the nature(s) of God in Book Three. Omigosh! There's going to be a Book Three? Let me outline the plan here. Book One is to contain basic truths, primary understandings, and address personal matters and issues. Book Two is to contain more far-reaching truths, grander understandings and address global matters and issues. Book Three is to contain the largest truths you are now capable of understanding and address universal matters and issues - matters being dealt with by all the beings of the universe. I can't wait to read Books Two & Three ... :) Here's to CELEBRATING our being!
The moral codes, religious constrictions, social taboos and emotional conventions you have placed around sex (and, by the way, around love - and all of life) have made it virtually impossible for you to celebrate your being. From the beginning of time all man has ever wanted is to love and be loved. And from the beginning of time man has done everything in his power to make it imopossible to do that. Sex is an extraordinary expression of love - love of another, love of Self, love of life. You ought to therefore love it! (And you do - you just can't tell anyone you do; you don't dare show how much you love it or you'll be called a pervert. Yet this is the idea that is perverted.) In our next book, we shall look at sex much more closely; explore its dynamics in greater detail, for this is an experience and an issue of sweeping implications on a global scale. For now - and for you, personally - simply know this: I have given you nothing shameful, least of all your very body and its functions. There is no need to hide your body or its functions - nor your love of them, and of each other. Your television programs think nothing of showing naked violence but shrink from showing naked love. Your whole society reflects that priority. 12. Is there life on other planets? Have we been visited by it? Are we being observed now? Will we see evidence - irrevocable and indisputable - of extraterrestrial life in our lifetime? Does each form of life have its own God? Are you the God of it all? Yes to the first part. Yes to the second. Yes to the third. I cannot answer the fourth part, since that would require me to predict the future - something I am not going to do We will however talk a great deal more about this thing called the future in Book Two - and we'll talk about extraterrestrial life and the nature(s) of God in Book Three. Omigosh! There's going to be a Book Three? Let me outline the plan here. Book One is to contain basic truths, primary understandings, and address personal matters and issues. Book Two is to contain more far-reaching truths, grander understandings and address global matters and issues. Book Three is to contain the largest truths you are now capable of understanding and address universal matters and issues - matters being dealt with by all the beings of the universe. I can't wait to read Books Two & Three ... :)
The moral codes, religious constrictions, social taboos and emotional conventions you have placed around sex (and, by the way, around love - and all of life) have made it virtually impossible for you to celebrate your being.
From the beginning of time all man has ever wanted is to love and be loved. And from the beginning of time man has done everything in his power to make it imopossible to do that. Sex is an extraordinary expression of love - love of another, love of Self, love of life. You ought to therefore love it! (And you do - you just can't tell anyone you do; you don't dare show how much you love it or you'll be called a pervert. Yet this is the idea that is perverted.)
In our next book, we shall look at sex much more closely; explore its dynamics in greater detail, for this is an experience and an issue of sweeping implications on a global scale.
For now - and for you, personally - simply know this: I have given you nothing shameful, least of all your very body and its functions. There is no need to hide your body or its functions - nor your love of them, and of each other.
Your television programs think nothing of showing naked violence but shrink from showing naked love. Your whole society reflects that priority.
12. Is there life on other planets? Have we been visited by it? Are we being observed now? Will we see evidence - irrevocable and indisputable - of extraterrestrial life in our lifetime? Does each form of life have its own God? Are you the God of it all?
Yes to the first part. Yes to the second. Yes to the third. I cannot answer the fourth part, since that would require me to predict the future - something I am not going to do
We will however talk a great deal more about this thing called the future in Book Two - and we'll talk about extraterrestrial life and the nature(s) of God in Book Three.
Omigosh! There's going to be a Book Three?
Let me outline the plan here.
Book One is to contain basic truths, primary understandings, and address personal matters and issues.
Book Two is to contain more far-reaching truths, grander understandings and address global matters and issues.
Book Three is to contain the largest truths you are now capable of understanding and address universal matters and issues - matters being dealt with by all the beings of the universe.
I can't wait to read Books Two & Three ... :)
PEGGY--I laughed envisioning a woman with eyes rolling around like a doll's--sorry! It was the only way for me with my ,as yet, limited functioning :-) I'm afraid this might be just as bad, since I can't make paragraphs and bold print etc...but the time is available to me here and now...my life and my readings came to a head several years back when I had a life-crisis of sorts--my childhood with my "dysfunctional" parents had led me to think about how people relate etc...probably like many such children. I entered my own marriage, sure that I "knew" what "should" be, and what it was I wanted...trouble was, my husband, being from a different culture, or just being who he is, had different ideas ;-)My ideas were, I thought,what love was about--knowing each other inside and out, sharing everything, supporting each other through thick and thin--lovingly and gently at that. Being "everything" to each other. I was "big" enough to realize that there would be difficulties, perhaps, but never was the goal in question. The snag, as mentioned, was my husband's different idea of what love was-- which eventually, after much trying to accomodate his style etc..culminated in my aforementioned crisis in which my worldview got reexamined--what was love? what was marriage about? how did I live life "best"? :-) It was at this time that I discovered Polly Berends (much like Thomas Hora's) works and ideas---and they helped me immensely. I had been questioning the very notion of monogamy--and was thinking that it was really all about people wanting to feel secure-- to "have" someone as theirs, vs the more open idea of allowing people to come and go in our lives, to whatever level of intimacy that both desired, seeing each as a gift from the universe (essentially open marriage)--though I didn't really see how kids fit into this...they truly seem to thrive on a steady home life--even if less than "perfect"--though how much of this was our own passing along of needs?? I considered that, my husband not wanting what I wanted/needed from a relationship was grounds for divorce and that I should be bold and make my needs known more directly, and not just accept meekly my circumstance! Slowly I came to see things differently...which is how I see them now. Essentially, I came to see that my romantic notions of love were not so ideal (though I will say here that if anyone has that sort of fit with someone---bully for you! I just don't think it is essential to being happy, and I don't think it happens for the majority of people. Be grateful! :-))...and that what skewered things so was the turning to people vs God to be acknowledged and to be made to feel loved and to be recognized etc...these "needs" were ego needs and had nothing to do with my Self...this realization made it possible for me to let go of many expectations of my husband. This letting go, in turn, kindled a truly loving looking at him---not as someone who was there to buoy me up (God was there for that)...but just because he was who he was. I came to be less "needy"--even though I had previously felt my "needs" were noble and good and desirable. I felt that things happening just as they had, was key to this mini-awakening, and relaxed into the notion that my Life was unfolding as it should and what I needed to understand or awake to could be discerned by simply opening my eyes. I still slip and struggle as you all have witnessed--but I have the enduring idea that I'll understand more when I do ;-) Meanwhile I do what I need to do until I know what I need to know. In conclusion, I have come to see relationships as fertile ground for spiritual awakening. The attraction we feel for someone and the wonder of "falling in love" cause us to commit to the path. Many times we get tired of the effort caused by our ignorance, and become "attracted" to someone new, when in fact we have all we need already. I think if we were fully awake, we would likely not have the impetus or feel the attractions/straying desire (once in a relationship or ever-if we "awoke" before being involved) because we'd already know what union was about--and as I said before, I think it's the sexual union/romantic ideal that prods many of us to seek such bliss on a larger basis--namely by coming to know God everyday and as everpresent. Obviously many relationships do not go like this--people simply think people have let them down and they divorce and start over, or they resign themselves to fulfill their commitment joylessly. Then there are extreme circumstances of abuse etc...but I think that ideally, the long-term, one-on-one relationship, serves to show us what we need to see--which could be different for each of us. The point is not about some ONE who is our source of joy and fulfillment, but about coming to see that no ONE can be that for us--only God---and then we are free to live together lovingly. I once thought this seemed rather pathetic and passionless :-) But not anymore. I'm still learning, and sometimes I'm still needy--but it passes much more quickly now :-)I am learning not to depend on permanence (of a relationship, of this body, of this world...), and that I can only control(or turn my control over to something higher) my own part of it all...PEGGY--shake your head and the eyes will stop spinning :-) Love, Cathy
Hmmm...That has to be one of the dumbest things I ever said.
Meanwhile, I watched a one-legged man win a butt-kicking contest tonight. Eddie! Eddie! :-)
TO, your glimpse at the future is very bleak. Don't you ever read success stories? I know a ten year old who cried because her African-American friends could not afford private schooling. I know an eight year old who refused to see Gladiators because he doesn't like the idea of people killing other people. I know a thirteen year old who declined to let her father pay over $700 for a rare CD of her favorite rock group. But enough about my grandchildren... Why are you closing your eyes during the good part of the movie, bud?
But enough about my grandchildren...
Why are you closing your eyes during the good part of the movie, bud?
Cathy, here's hoping that you live up to your potential! :-) But I must confess that I got about halfway through the Hora before my eyes spun out of control. Bob F., along with "practice, practice, practice," I would add "location, location, location!" Be here now! I also like your twist on the zen lesson. Hope that your wife is feeling better quickly. Abdominal surgery is rough. Give her everything that she wants. Hadi, I am pleased that you will share some things about your relationship with Grace here. As you must know, she is an enigma to me. I have visions of heroic proportions! (heh, heh) Silvia, you are still so right on!
Bob F., along with "practice, practice, practice," I would add "location, location, location!" Be here now! I also like your twist on the zen lesson.
Hope that your wife is feeling better quickly. Abdominal surgery is rough. Give her everything that she wants.
Hadi, I am pleased that you will share some things about your relationship with Grace here. As you must know, she is an enigma to me. I have visions of heroic proportions! (heh, heh)
Silvia, you are still so right on!
HADI--just read your comment about my being more verbose than you--you guys are so funny ;-) Remember those were not my words--I just cut and pasted...my part was pretty short :-) Though I do have more to say on relationships....I might still be verbose! I certainly have the potential! Peace! Cathy
BOB F--very funny ;-) I've not yet learned how to post things so beautifully as you guys :-) I know the sites w/the info were posted awhile back--I never did make it there...if anyone cares to repost, perhaps I'll try to learn something new :) Hadi, I think the "Just meditate" doesn't exactly cover it, but maybe that's because I haven't just done it enough ;-)I have always felt that Life really is simple, once we get it...but getting to the getting it isn't always simple--can be, but usually isn't. Peace! Cathy
Hadi - Put another way, Practice, Practice, PracticeNamaste'
Practice, Practice, Practice
Cathy: Thanks for the Hora, Hora, and then some more-ah. I wasn't familiar with his work and i'm grateful for the info and the lead. I think, though, Maharishi was more economical about it. "Just meditate"
Chris: I was hoping to get back to you tonight. It's been a busy week. But now I'm tired. If I don't reply tonight, then hopefully tomorrow. There's no need to email you, I've nothing to hide. It would only be fair to include my thoughts on the original question as part of the discussion.
At last! Someone more verbose than me!
I figured I'd break this up into chunks :-) This is not meant to imply that I'm saying anything you don't already know--just sharing what I think--which you may agree with or not, of course :-)...one thought I have about relationships in terms of knowing God is this --it seems to me that the most readily tangible experience for most people of the ecstasies of oneness is sexual union. And so we come together and enjoy the bliss---of course, not all sex produces such a high, but I think just about any sex where there is some amount of caring or love between partners brings pretty consistent results. Same can be said for the strong feelings and blissfulness of "new love"--I think the problem comes in that we typically come to see these wonderful feelings as being dependent on the "other" when, in fact, they are available to each of us individually upon enlightenment or waking up to the reality that we are part of a divine reality. Many people go from person to person to continually experience the bliss (those who have numerous affairs, or less affairs, or brief, frequent relationships)...others think it's not meant to last...but we need not engage in sex and/or romantic love (though, as I said, it's a readily attainable and viable option for many of us) to experience the blessedness---we have the potential within us to know such wonder--that is God. End of chapter one ;-) Cathy
We are back from 2 great weeks in the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, Lake Powell etc. Then, two days home and my wife has an emergency appendectomy (good thing it didn't happen on one of our hikes in the boonies). She is home from the hospital, in good shape and this relationship now has me playing the role of primary care giver and support nurse.Cathy - That is without question, the longest paragraph I have ever seen!!!Yesterday, I chop wood and carry water, today I change bandages.Namaste', Bob
Cathy - That is without question, the longest paragraph I have ever seen!!!
Yesterday, I chop wood and carry water, today I change bandages.
how does one discover their one true talent? i have heard that everyone has that one talent that they are good at to the point where they could earn a good living at it and they will enjoy, not even thinking of it as a job. if this is true, i would like some advise as to how to discover what it is. chandi
Hi all--I have some comments I want to share about the relationship thing, but will wait until I have more time :-) Meanwhile, I thought I'd share this info someone shared with me about metapshychiatry and Thomas Hora---in case any one is interetsed--it's long :-)It does a better job than I did of explaining things and such a view does have some implications for relationships...hope this pasting works! Cathy An Introduction to the Lists and Principles of Metapsychiatry Among the many transpersonal teachings that have emerged over the last decades, one of the least promoted but most worthy of wider examination is the one called Metapsychiatry by its recently deceased author, Dr. Thomas Hora. Hora communicated the collection of definitions, principles, inspired and inspiring ideas and slogans during his practice of psychiatry from the early fifties through his death in 1995. His didactic legacy is retained in the hearts and souls of his students as well as in the four books, dozen pamphlets, and many audio tapes of group sessions which are available through the PAGL Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to the dissemination of his works (see www.pagl.org). Hora was an innovative psychiatrist who viewed the systematic ignoring of God and of God's primacy in human existence as serious shortcomings of his training and of any therapeutic endeavor. He wrote and delivered many papers during the 1950s and early 1960s, but his ideas received little serious attention from his peers subsequent to his being honored with the Karen Horney award for contributions to psychiatry in 1958. His response to this lack of interest on the part of his colleagues was to focus exclusively on his patients for the remainder of his career. He seemed to possess a knack for expressing spiritual ideas succinctly and clearly. And although he often cautioned against treating Metapsychiatry as "information" (i.e. written down, filed away, remembered when desired) by emphasizing that the sole transformative power resides in "the truth realized in consciousness," he himself was prolific at coining (or adapting from others) catchy phrases (e.g. "everything and everyone is here for God, whether they know it or not" or "trying is lying" or "there's nothing more ridiculous than seriousness" or "compassion is understanding the lack of understanding") and codifying crucial ideas with highly mnemonic lists and language. For example, there are: the two intelligent questions the two ways of attaining commitment to the spiritual life the two sources of problems in life the three ways of being here in the world the three Ps (of personhood) the three Rs (of redemption) the three prongs of the Devil's pitchfork the three Es (of enlightened existence) the four Ws (of reality) the four Horsemen (of suffering) the five Gates of Hell the six futile questions the six types of students of Metapsychiatry the six Bs (of interactive thought and behavior) the eleven principles of Metapsychiatry He characterized Metapsychiatry as "an epistemological method of truth realization." This means that only what we come to know, as contrasted with what we believe or "know about," is capable of altering the quality of our lives. He further observed that only what is true (i.e. real) could be known, while what is false can merely be believed. This paper, then, offers an introduction to Metapsychiatry through a description of a few of its catalogues of values and ideas. The Fundamental Distinction Metapsychiatry begins by distinguishing between reality and experience, between the noumenal (knowable solely by thought) and the phenomenal (knowable through the senses). Its ninth principle asserts that "reality cannot be experienced or imagined; it can, however, be realized." Realization is defined* as "when reality becomes real to us." Reality is itself defined, a la Plato, as the realm of the immutable, the eternally existing, and is composed of spiritual values, qualities and ideas. Experiences are exactly like dreams, with the same ephemeral nature and no mutative efficacy unless contemplated from a spiritual or meaning-oriented perspective. Such a radical pronouncement, classifying nearly all of what we perceive as conscious life as ignorant, often self-indulgent fantasy, is shockingly confrontational, yet not uncharacteristic of this iconoclastic methodology. Its strangeness, however, is tempered by sincerely considering how poorly our comprehension of so-called reality has served us in our lives. Maybe we need to be willing to acknowledge that we actually have little understanding of what is real. Spirit is defined by Metapsychiatry as non-dimensional (a term indicating the intangible and not measurable) substance, consisting of such values as truth, peace, harmony, love, joy, goodness, gratitude, generosity, beauty and assurance. The common characteristic of these qualities is that each of them cannot be "done." We cannot make them happen. They can be faked, but then lose their redemptive potency. Metapsychiatry persistently warns of the perils of "operationalism," the notion that spiritual understanding can be attained by following explicit behavioral rules or rituals or by applying certain techniques. The Two Intelligent Questions Instead, the approach recommended by Metapsychiatry toward making sense both of our experiences and of reality (and the heart of its therapeutic strategy) is to ask ourselves these two questions: what is the meaning of what seems to be (i.e. my experience)? what is what really is? The first of these, the phenomenological one, derives from the observation that we inhabit a mental universe, an "idios cosmos" (Heraclitus). This means that our intentionality, as set by our interests (highly prized mental involvement), determines our perceptions. Our life experiences, then, correspond to our individual world-view and values, which together manifest themselves as a "mode-of-being-in-the-world" (Ludwig Binswanger). For each individual, specific occurrences and symptoms reflect strong ideational attachments, such as what is "cherished, hated or feared." Hora referred to the anonymous poet who wrote, "we think in secret and it comes to pass; the world is but our looking-glass," to Job's "for the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me" and to the biblical statement that "where a man's treasure lies, there shall his problems be also" as historical examples of phenomenological sensitivity. But the fact that the dominant role of our ruminations in our lives has been known by isolated individuals for millennia in no way facilitates our own receptivity. Indeed, the willingness to consider our hidden thoughts as the origin of our physical, emotional, financial, or social dilemmas in life is surprisingly rare. And yet, this open-mindedness is the only attitude enabling us to comprehend the significance of our thoughts in our experience and thereby eventually transform them and it. The second question, the ontological one, not only corrects the error manifested in our affairs; it also directs our attention to God (also known as infinite, omniactive Love-Intelligence) as the source of all valid ideas and all good available everywhere to everyone. Reality is perfect; our inharmonious experiences reveal our conscious and unconscious association with existentially invalid ideas, i.e. those that prove themselves to be invariably troublesome, and our lack of appreciation of the nature and presence of the governing principle of life. Aligning our consciousness with God serves to liberate us from preoccupation with a problematic perspective (since we can only pay attention to one idea at any time), and to turn our awareness toward an expectancy of healing revelation. At the same time, it reassures us that there exists a positive, guiding intelligence in the universe that can be relied upon to meet our immediate, if not our every, need. This combination, of the explanatory and the inspiring, achieved by asking ourselves these questions, offers to clarify the experience and to lift the spirit of the receptive seeker because it dissolves the mystery and hence the discomfort of the moment and replaces them with a grateful acknowledgement of the good (i.e. God) which, as the second principle of Metapsychiatry proclaims, "already is." The Three Rs The sequence of cognitive events by which the two intelligent (so dubbed because they penetrate efficiently to the heart of the matter) questions achieve their liberating effect is comprised of Recognition, Regret and Reorientation, also known as the three Rs. First we need to become fully aware of the invalid thoughts plaguing us. These are the meaning, or mental equivalent, of our troublesome experiences. Humility is required for someone to admit that there is something one does not understand. Most of us are more attached to our world-views than we would like to admit. It takes a fair amount (the quantity of which depends upon the degree of stubbornness) of suffering, then, for us to concede that we have been valuing some idea which is harmful to us. Frequently, the assistance of another individual, a phenomenological elucidator, is needed to expose our blindness to our invalid assumptions. The embarrassment typically accompanying such revelations was cited by Hora as being of significant therapeutic value and, in fact, often proved to be salutary for his students. In recognition, we come to "know again" the esteemed but hidden thoughts that we are usually surprised to find bedeviling us. If we are truly uncomfortable with that discovery, then we are able to regret our vexatious attachment. It is the magnitude of this remorse that determines our readiness to abandon the mistaken course we have previously pursued in order to seek the truth. Reorientation toward what Metapsychiatry terms "the truth of being" is what makes possible the healing. Merely to become wholeheartedly interested in knowing the truth is itself liberating because attention has been shifted from existentially invalid to valid ideation. When the truth of the particular situation is realized, which occurs by grace to the sincere consciousness, healing "obtains." It is the knowing of the truth, as Jesus explained, that makes us free by displacing the error in our thoughts. The three Rs, then, describe the evolution of the healing process initiated by the two intelligent questions in response to a particular problem in life. Problems, of course, develop because of our ignorance (“ignoring that which is available to be known”) of the ways of the world and of God. To find and maintain a spiritual course, it is necessary to come to understand the nature of appearances and of reality. The Eleven Principles To assist in this educational function, Metapsychiatry has identified eleven principles deserving of our contemplation: 1. Thou shall have no other interests before the good of God, which is spiritual blessedness. Although the wording resembles that of the first of the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament, its emphasis is best appreciated by prefixing the words "if you would have a healthy and fulfilled life." It is saying that we must get our priorities ordered, that nothing is more vital to well-being than being interested in God's good, and that the nature of that good lies in the constant outpouring of blessings for our spirits. It also implies that if we adhere to the first principle, then “all things work together for good.” We need to be sincerely interested in (i.e. love), and become aware of, the spiritual values, qualities and ideas that constitute the governing principle of life. Nothing can be more important to us than to know what is real, which is the good of God. Lesser concerns prevent us from coming to know reality, which Metapsychiatry asserts is the meaning and purpose of life. It is reminiscent of the beatitude which says, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Metapsychiatry explains that being poor in spirit means being preoccupied about the state of our spiritual health, just like being poor in money means being obsessed with our financial status. And he who is so singlemindedly focussed will inevitably attain a conscious awareness of the presence of God, which is the “kingdom of heaven.” The criterion for knowing whether or not we have reached this level of realization is by the extent of PAGL (an acronym representing Peace, Assurance, Gratitude and Love) in consciousness. The presence of these spiritual qualities indicates that we have been blessed with understanding. To the degree that we esteem PAGL above all other things in life, we transcend what Metapsychiatry (and Jesus) called “this world,” the lure of personal power, material success and fame. But as Hora would often say, “it is easy to become enlightened; it is only difficult to be interested in it.” He also observed that “worldly success is existential failure,” implying that what the world celebrates has nothing in common with existential reality. 2. Take no thought for what should be or what should not be; seek ye first to know the good of God which already is. This principle emanates from Karen Horney's commentary that "should thinking" is tyrannical and egomaniacal. We succumb to the vanity that we think we know what is best for ourselves, others, society at large, etc. It reveals a conviction that the way things are right now is imperfect and how to fix it (a should), or a fear that some imagined evil is threatening the perfection of the present (a should not). Instead, Metapsychiatry counsels that we direct our attention toward becoming aware of what always was and what currently is, because the awareness of spiritual good replaces the concern with changing or controlling the future with a mindfulness of the eternally existent. God, as Hora repeatedly noted, is an “Is” system, not a “Should” system. It is clear that should thoughts are the same as “wanting” ones, while “should not” notions are equivalent to not wanting. Metapsychiatry has updated the Buddha's revelation to state that we only suffer from what we want and what we don't want. In addition to helping us see beyond the illusions of the temporal dimension, this recommendation shifts the locus of concentration from self and others, which is what “should thinking” is all about, to individual consciousness, which is where all real transformation (what Krishnamurti called “the real revolution”) occurs. By affirming that a perfect universe governed by God's good already exists, and that all that is required is for us to see and value it, we are relieved of the terrible, self-imposed burden of tyrannical judgments. As Metapsychiatry states in its meditation on the Lord's Prayer, “heavenly harmony is available here and now to the shouldless.” 3. There is no interaction anywhere; there is only omniaction everywhere. Long considered most blatantly contradictory of everyone's everyday experiences, this principle speaks of transcendent vision as being real, and of our quotidian encounters with others as the realm of fantasy, where all kinds of things are endlessly imagined. Metapsychiatry defines interaction as “thinking about what others are thinking about what we are thinking,” and considers it one of the two principal sources of problems in living. It suggests that such speculation is utterly fanciful. Instead, it posits God as the truly operative reality, manifesting itself continuously everywhere. One basis for such a categorical assertion is the observation that real communication is entirely uni-directional ("from God to and through man") in the sense that only valid, intelligent and beneficial ideas, originating from God, can be communicated, and that all that mankind needs is to become interested in what God is telling it. Otherwise, there is only hearsay, imagining, miscommunication, and judging by appearances. To know God as the only, let alone prime, mover in human existence requires initially a leap of faith. One must be willing to look for evidence of omniaction, an infinite, benevolent intelligence controlling all life forms, in order to be able to recognize and see it. Once we become aware of its presence and power, we become unwilling to be enticed by the formerly compelling challenge of interaction with others. (The Bible’s “the leaves on the trees are for the healing of nations” was also mentioned as illustrating the uniqueness of individual life forms, their utter independence of one another, and their total dependence on their source for their existence.) 4. Yes is good, but no is also good. This principle appears to be a simple corollary of the Christian acquiescence to divine intentionality, “Thy will be done.” Though this might seem to be a Pollyanna dictum and, in fact, is usually interpreted fatalistically by the ingenuous, its profundity emerges when we stop to consider how frustrating it seems to our usual willfulness. Like Emerson's admonition to “Beware of what you want, for you may get it,” it dares us to scrutinize the legitimacy of our desires, to question their validity. The underlying idea is that our limited perspective of what we need is not reliable. Rather, we would do better to depend on a more aware, perceptive mind. By choosing to rely on unlimited intelligence, rather than on our own meager essays in search of good, and by observing the consequent tranquility that we find, we ultimately become committed to seeking spiritual guidance in all our affairs. 5. God helps those who let Him. In order to be helped by God, we cannot petition him. Unlike religion, which Metapsychiatry characterizes as “an attempt to influence God to get what we want,” spiritually minded individuals are interested in and guided by inspired wisdom radiating from God. As for the complaint that we cannot hear God or recognize when He, rather than our own imagination, is speaking to us, Metapsychiatry reminds us that “God is cogizant of us while we are mindful of Him.” It is humble, attentive receptivity that is required for God to reach us, not a willful manipulative viewpoint, nor adherence to a prescribed code of rules of righteous behavior. The principle is also a striking reminder that man cannot redeem himself or his situation in life by his own, independent efforts, hence a challenge to our passion for personal power and effectiveness. 6. If you know what, you know how. As mentioned earlier, Metapsychiatry warns against operationalism, which is the cultivation of techniques for attaining spiritual benefits. The trouble with an emphasis on “doing” is that the application of formulaic behavior precludes understanding from obtaining because the mind is concentrating on behavior and not on receptivity to inspired ideas. Seeing clearly the meaning and purpose of something enables an effortless, appropriate orientation toward it. Knowing what God is, for example, allows us to be open to God's good. Knowing what meditation or prayer is enables us to meditate or pray effectively. As always with truly spiritual teachings, the issue is understanding (i.e. “being”) rather than acquisition or appearance or demeanor (“doing”). As it says in Proverbs, “Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.” 7. Nothing comes into experience uninvited. This terse statement of phenomenological discovery is often misinterpreted as blaming the victim of unpleasant experiences for their occurrence. What it says, however, is that the thoughts to which we attach ourselves and with which we identify have the power to manifest themselves in our life experiences. Such thoughts are not personal. Metapsychiatry even states that man cannot think, that he can only be aware of thoughts. Hence he cannot be faulted for the repercussions of invalid, troublesome ones. Instead, by learning this karmic law, man can exercise what the Bible calls “dominion,” by selecting and appreciating those thoughts and ideas that prove to be health-promoting, life-enhancing, and spirit-uplifting, and by recognizing and rejecting those which have been seen to be pathogenic, i.e., self-destructive and demoralizing. A distinction is also introduced between experiences that affect our sense of well being and observations that are merely the object of our attention. Awareness of the mental climate in a particular situation protects us by allowing us to remain separate from it and to be individually unaffected by its consequences. 8. Problems are lessons designed for our edification. Insofar as we understand reality and our place within it, life proceeds harmoniously. When problems arise, their appearance indicates some lack of understanding. The problem exists and is sustained by our need to have revealed to us the insufficiency of our comprehension of some significant aspect of life. It serves to teach us, by motivating us through the suffering it induces, to seek a clearer view of our true identity and purpose. So viewed, the problem functions as a blessing to expand our perspective, rather than as a condemnation of our way of living. As an example, suppose there appears and continues to be a shortage of money in one's life. This demonstrates an inadequate awareness of the nature of supply. Metapsychiatry defines money as “the shadow of love.” Consequently, the money problem can be healed by learning to “love being loving” above all things. Further, the nature and magnitude of the difficulties that arise in our lives are always appropriate to, and reflective of, the degree of misunderstanding or ignorance that prevails. To wish that it were otherwise, to rail that we don't deserve it, is to miss the valuable teaching inherent in the problem. 9. Reality cannot be experienced or imagined; it can, however, be realized. This distinction categorizes mental states as oriented either toward reality or toward unreality. Despite large volumes of seemingly respectable spiritual literature and traditions that speak of spiritual experiences and of the value of conjuring spiritual reality through the imagination or through a variety of physical activities, Metapsychiatry asserts that such notions are mistaken, that experiences are qualitatively different from realization, and that only the imaginary can be attained by the imagination. What do we make of this challenge? Metapsychiatry states, in a restatement of part of the “Lord's Prayer” that “God-centered living is the only alternative to self-confirmatory ideation.” The tendency toward self-centered thinking and concern, while wholly familiar and understandable, denies the presence, power, and reality of God. Sometimes, spiritual teachers, in a misguided attempt to include individuals suffering from all manner of self-affirming thoughts, have encouraged such seekers by endorsing the redemptive value of personal, bodily sensations and visions (like Kundalini yoga or various so-called "holistic" healing techniques) as “spiritual” in nature. The purpose of this principle, then, is to help us discriminate between the apparent and the real. It does not tell us directly what is real, but that reality can be known, and how to recognize what is not real. 10. The understanding of what really is abolishes all that seems to be. This idea is most helpful and supportive when we feel overwhelmed by some crisis or burden. It tells us that we are perceiving incorrectly, that there is an alternative way that will redeem the situation, and that we simply need to turn to the truth (i.e. to “stand under” the light of the truth) to see the problem vanish, like a nightmare disappearing upon our awakening. By affirming the insubstantiality of our experience, it inspires us to search for the truth that has been temporarily obscured from view by our having been mesmerized by some appearance. 11. Do not show your pearls before unreceptive minds, for they will only demean them. This is the principle of self-protection, which at first hardly seems spiritually-minded. What it indicates, however, is that the effort to communicate with those who are not wholeheartedly interested in seeking the truth is disturbing and undermining to the spirit of the sincere student, that the encounter diminishes his enthusiasm for his discovery. Dr. Hora repeatedly encouraged his disciples to “practice Metapsychiatry nonverbally,” which means to consciously value its ideas without attempting to persuade others of its benefits or veracity. This accords with Taoist and other traditions, which advise disciples to communicate their appreciation and realization of the truth simply by manifesting it in their lives, and not by preaching about it. In such a way, the genuineness of their understanding becomes apparent to any with an eye to see, and they are saved from the dispiriting attentions of the curious and the contentious. Properties of the Principles There is some sense in which fully understanding any of the foregoing principles is sufficient to comprehend them all, like the pearl necklace that need only be lifted by a single pearl to be possessed. To authentically know a principle is to glimpse a facet of reality, and to attain that quality of mind facilitates the apprehension of other perspectives of the truth. As the above discussion has illustrated, the principles are significantly interconnected. For example, number 7 implies number 8. Number 3 suggests number 4. Number 9 and number 10 are clearly interrelated. The principles also share the characteristic that their validity can only be proven to oneself, and never to others, by sincere consideration and devoted contemplation. Like all spiritual values, they can only be known by a reverent and receptive consciousness. Summary Metapsychiatry is distinguished by its emphasis on semantic precision, its definitions of existentially significant terms, and its lists of spiritual and phenomenological principles and ideas. Although much of its teaching has been culled from spiritual seers of various Eastern and Christian traditions, its amalgam of European existentialist and Christian Science-like phenomenological perspectives, along with its lucid explanations of scripture, offer much to explore for the spiritually-minded student, acolyte or therapist. Those encountering the writings of Dr. Hora for the first time may be surprised to find that the documents are mostly edited transcriptions of oral responses to questions posed by students and hence exhibit the spontaneity and style of speech rather than that of carefully organized discourses. Nevertheless, they contain interesting statements of and explanations into the natures of illusion, suffering, truth and redemption, and their investigation may prove valuable to the transpersonal seeker.
"Your task is not to seek love, but merely to seek and find all of the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. It is not necessary to seek for what is true, but it is necessary to seek for what is false. Every illusion is one of fear, whatever form it takes. And the attempt to escape from one illusion into another must fail. If you seek love outside yourself you can be certain that you will perceive hatred within, and are afraid of it. Yet peace will never come from the illusion of love, but only from its reality." A Course in Miracles
A Course in Miracles
I am looking for information on the Ayuverdic Center that Chopra manages in Massachusetts. Any help would be appreciated. Many thanks.
I spend a lot of time "helping out" people that are in relationships (marriage too) that fit every situation Hadi outlined.That effort is aimed at their having a relationship like Pegasus related as far as her and Dave are concerned.It's also how Gibran described "Love" between two people in "The Prophet".
That effort is aimed at their having a relationship like Pegasus related as far as her and Dave are concerned.
It's also how Gibran described "Love" between two people in "The Prophet".
BTW, it was the girl asking the boy.
I don't know about all of you, but I remember all this good little Catholic boy was doing during adolescence, and it sure as hell wasn't anything my parents, aunts/uncles, grandparents knew about. I had to laugh the other day about a discussion on the tube about sex education in school....pro/con. These kids c0an educate "us" when it comes to what their doing.That RU 486 is just going to blow the lid off any "abstinence" thoughts.
I had to laugh the other day about a discussion on the tube about sex education in school....pro/con.
These kids c0an educate "us" when it comes to what their doing.
That RU 486 is just going to blow the lid off any "abstinence" thoughts.
Namaste' Great discussion on relationships, and with the exception of folks here who are at least AWARE of how the interactions play out, and what's necessary for tranquility, I agree with Hadi. Now I'll give you an example of the future......... A little 13 year old girl, and a little 13 year old boy, have a puppy love "thing" going. This has been going on about 6 months now, and they are always calling each other.The other day the phone rang and it just happened that the grandmother (who is raising the boy) and the kid answer the phone at the same time. They don't know grandma's on the line, and this was the gest of the conversation:"I'll give you oral sex (slang) if you'll have intercourse with me (slang)."
Great discussion on relationships, and with the exception of folks here who are at least AWARE of how the interactions play out, and what's necessary for tranquility, I agree with Hadi.
Now I'll give you an example of the future.........
A little 13 year old girl, and a little 13 year old boy, have a puppy love "thing" going. This has been going on about 6 months now, and they are always calling each other.
The other day the phone rang and it just happened that the grandmother (who is raising the boy) and the kid answer the phone at the same time. They don't know grandma's on the line, and this was the gest of the conversation:
"I'll give you oral sex (slang) if you'll have intercourse with me (slang)."
A Path To Love by Deepak Chopra has great things to say about relationships.There is one statement on one of those 2CDs that is very helpful to me & it sticks in my mind: "Your relationship with your spouse is a reflection of your relationship with yourself". Now, whenever I get frustrated with my relationship with my husband,I always think about "that statement" and it prompts me to sit back and ask myself "Why am I really feeling upset".Following that question I usually review my deeper feelings & thoughts. Most always I conclude that I haven't been nuturing myself adequately.I haven't been spending enough quiet time,I've been working too hard,I haven't spent enough time with Nature, I haven't been sleeping enough, eating enough , perhaps I bottled up anger when I did not speak my mind when I felt I should have with him or anyone else for that matter. After all that I think of ways that I can strengthen & nuturing the relationship with my inner-self by taking time out & experiencing the things I love.By the time I finish thinking of ways of nuturing myself I have forgotten all about the petty issues and I'm focused on re-creating a saisfied inner-me.
I could not get into that particular CNN website so I don't know what the article is about. I do know that sexual bigotry against women is not limited to men. I think that's because gender descrimination is so ingrained that many otherwise enlightened people cannot see their own prejudices. But I do agree with you, Ahem, that "it" all begins with respect for the humanity of everyone. "Love is a many gendered thing..." :-)
But I do agree with you, Ahem, that "it" all begins with respect for the humanity of everyone.
"Love is a many gendered thing..." :-)
Interestingly, in the light of recent discussions, I was checking out a few 'old' links and came across this from an interview Deepak gave with Richard Moss on 'What is transformation'. Anyway, at the end of the interview, he asks Deepak what his wife would say about him ... here is his reply: "She thinks I am a great intellect, but that I need to mature, that I am still trying to prove something to the world, and that I need to let go of that, and she is right. ...In the end, what helps me most is to constantly experience gratitude for everything I have, for the relationships I have. Gratitude always brings me to a place of peace. As long as I keep my awareness in the experience of gratitude, the grace of God is there."
"She thinks I am a great intellect, but that I need to mature, that I am still trying to prove something to the world, and that I need to let go of that, and she is right. ...In the end, what helps me most is to constantly experience gratitude for everything I have, for the relationships I have. Gratitude always brings me to a place of peace. As long as I keep my awareness in the experience of gratitude, the grace of God is there."
The root of the problem in that article has little to do with the institution of marriage. A higher percentage of women than men in that poll think a man was justified in beating his wife if she used contraceptives without his expressed consent. The root of the problem also has little to do with differences between men and women. The problem is lack of love and respect amongst human beings causing them to lower the value of human feelings. OK Peg?
A higher percentage of women than men in that poll think a man was justified in beating his wife if she used contraceptives without his expressed consent. The root of the problem also has little to do with differences between men and women. The problem is lack of love and respect amongst human beings causing them to lower the value of human feelings. OK Peg?
Problems have old and deep roots: http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/09/20/un.population.report/
beautiful posts Peggy & Hadi. not really having the time to join in i will ad that i read in Deepak's, Path To (Of?) Love, that he said every relationship we have is the exact relationships we should be having. and i remember Osho saying that only a very few people are capable of having a good marriage. he never married himself but i do know that he also advocated remaining in the marketplace, remaining social, not becoming reclusive. and also remember Deepak once saying the biggest problem a seeker must face is wanting to become reclusive and advices against it. one more wonderful lady, Carolynn (sp?) Myss also feels that when we become aware, that the work just begins. that running off to hide from our duties is not spiritual. hmmmm, many wonderful things i have heard these wonderful people say keeps coming to my mind, but enough of that. hey Pat!! i don't even recognize my life as mine anymore, heh! who am i?? where am i?? but i am embracing all the changes and trying to keep up as best i can. thanks for asking, love, and hope you and your lovely daughter are doing real good, and my wishes are for a continuing peace and happiness in your life, dearOne, Namasté
hey Pat!! i don't even recognize my life as mine anymore, heh! who am i?? where am i?? but i am embracing all the changes and trying to keep up as best i can. thanks for asking, love, and hope you and your lovely daughter are doing real good, and my wishes are for a continuing peace and happiness in your life, dearOne, Namasté
Ego warning! This post is all about me! When Dave and I were in Charleston, S.C. recently, we were making our way to a Latin jazz club when we got "trapped" walking behind a bride and four or five bridesmaids. As we finally passed them, I turned and shouted back, "Welcome to the great rollercoaster!" My husband of fourteen years (I stand corrected) was holding my hand. Some couples don't fit the descriptions you've given, Hadi. In my own experience, my marriage shifts gears from time to time. Sometimes it is like silk off a spool. Other times it is barbed wire. Most of the time it is somewhere in between but still preferable to not being together. (I've grown accustomed to his face...) Do I give up some of my freedom to have that relationship? Sure! I also give up freedom when I choose to live in Western society. Compromise can be humbling and I need to be humbled from time to time. But the most important freedom is within. It takes something really horrific (like mental illness) to touch that. Hey, you are talking to a woman who swore her independence literally on the graves of Thoreau and Emerson! :-) The kinds of freedom that I give up are mostly little things: The freedom to use the computer at will. The freedom to have all of the closet space. The freedom to play the piano at odd hours. But then Dave and I are not the "typical" couple. I don't usually cook or keep house or do grocery shopping. In return, I don't harp at Dave about traditional male roles such as yard work. I stay up until the early morning hours and sleep in. I spend my days as I choose. Do I feel free to see other men? No. (Well, I did go out with Barry and Rod once!) But it is a freedom that I have chosen to give up. I don't think that human beings are naturally monogamous but it is a way to honor one's partner. But Dave and I have an enormous amount in common including our love of solitude. (The irony is not lost on me!) I don't think I could have had this relationship with anyone else. Meanwhile, for today it is a very solid relationship.
When Dave and I were in Charleston, S.C. recently, we were making our way to a Latin jazz club when we got "trapped" walking behind a bride and four or five bridesmaids. As we finally passed them, I turned and shouted back, "Welcome to the great rollercoaster!" My husband of fourteen years (I stand corrected) was holding my hand.
Some couples don't fit the descriptions you've given, Hadi. In my own experience, my marriage shifts gears from time to time. Sometimes it is like silk off a spool. Other times it is barbed wire. Most of the time it is somewhere in between but still preferable to not being together. (I've grown accustomed to his face...)
Do I give up some of my freedom to have that relationship? Sure! I also give up freedom when I choose to live in Western society. Compromise can be humbling and I need to be humbled from time to time. But the most important freedom is within. It takes something really horrific (like mental illness) to touch that.
Hey, you are talking to a woman who swore her independence literally on the graves of Thoreau and Emerson! :-)
The kinds of freedom that I give up are mostly little things: The freedom to use the computer at will. The freedom to have all of the closet space. The freedom to play the piano at odd hours.
But then Dave and I are not the "typical" couple. I don't usually cook or keep house or do grocery shopping. In return, I don't harp at Dave about traditional male roles such as yard work. I stay up until the early morning hours and sleep in. I spend my days as I choose.
Do I feel free to see other men? No. (Well, I did go out with Barry and Rod once!) But it is a freedom that I have chosen to give up. I don't think that human beings are naturally monogamous but it is a way to honor one's partner.
But Dave and I have an enormous amount in common including our love of solitude. (The irony is not lost on me!) I don't think I could have had this relationship with anyone else.
Meanwhile, for today it is a very solid relationship.
Hadi, I would be interested in hearing about your personal experiences regarding your spiritual experiences and how you have dealt with Cathy's question with your partner Grace. Email me if prefer. I feel that close relationships are just another one of those things we do while we experience the world in these "bodies". I really liked your quote Terry… Experiments in Truth. Very true.
I feel that close relationships are just another one of those things we do while we experience the world in these "bodies". I really liked your quote Terry… Experiments in Truth. Very true.
Hadi, You're one or two up on me. :( I can't say in all honestly I've encountered a couple who have a truly 'healthy' relationship. Naturally it depends on how you define truly healthy I suppose ... LONG before I got into 'all ths stuff' I used to contemplate the narrow range a person needs to be in to be 'seeking' a relationship. I figured you had to be 'needy' enough but not too needy because that would tend to put the other person off. I don't know if I've expressed that too well. Let me know if it makes any sense. :) Of course, back then there was no spiritual aspect to my thinking and I was amazed that any human relationships worked at all ...
You're one or two up on me. :(
I can't say in all honestly I've encountered a couple who have a truly 'healthy' relationship. Naturally it depends on how you define truly healthy I suppose ...
LONG before I got into 'all ths stuff' I used to contemplate the narrow range a person needs to be in to be 'seeking' a relationship. I figured you had to be 'needy' enough but not too needy because that would tend to put the other person off. I don't know if I've expressed that too well. Let me know if it makes any sense. :) Of course, back then there was no spiritual aspect to my thinking and I was amazed that any human relationships worked at all ...
Welcome to the Forum, Yvonne. I'm not sure we all think the same as you - in fact I've yet to meet anyone who thnks quite the way I do. :) But we are all 'fans' of Deepak's work. Way of the Wizard was also my first encounter with his thoughts and I too was blown away by how somebody could express the ideas I'd been playing with in ways which I could never quite manage. There's a couple more sites you might find interesting - www.chopra.com - This site has many features including question of the day. How To Know God Some excerpts Namaste.
I'm not sure we all think the same as you - in fact I've yet to meet anyone who thnks quite the way I do. :) But we are all 'fans' of Deepak's work.
Way of the Wizard was also my first encounter with his thoughts and I too was blown away by how somebody could express the ideas I'd been playing with in ways which I could never quite manage.
There's a couple more sites you might find interesting -
www.chopra.com - This site has many features including question of the day.
How To Know God
Some excerpts
Namaste.
Most of those inhibited, intimidated, enslaved and abused couples, if asked about their relationship would normally admit that their partner is just a peach. That everything is just fine. And then there's always the one's who love their spouse and so they have to leave in the middle of the night. And then there's the Ego that never wants to admit that it's marriage or relationship is failing, because that would be a reflection on themselves. And then there is the open relationship - "we both screw around, but I'd never leave him/her." I've known them all, but I've never asked them Cathy's question. Denial is so strange. Experiments in truth...
And then there's always the one's who love their spouse and so they have to leave in the middle of the night.
And then there's the Ego that never wants to admit that it's marriage or relationship is failing, because that would be a reflection on themselves.
And then there is the open relationship - "we both screw around, but I'd never leave him/her."
I've known them all, but I've never asked them Cathy's question.
Denial is so strange.
Experiments in truth...
Terry: "Experiments in truth" ;)
Hello, {{Peggy}}. Yes, it is sad, but it isn't my only observation of modern relationships. I have known of one or two healthy, happy, uncompromised relationships, but the vast majority, in my experience, seem sad. The statistics speak for themselves. We can highlight some notable ones, Taylor and Burton, Diana and Charles, Paula Yates and Michael Hutchins, well, almost any relationship you'd care to examine in Hollywood. In politics there's been quite a few failed relationships too. But even when we look beyond the failed relationships at the ones that stick at it. The ones that endure. How many of those are really about love, companionship, friendship, respect and honour always. How many of those are truely happy. You and Dave are very lucky to have such a healthy relationship. I have known friends who are just different people when they are on their own compared to when they are with their husband or wife. In the presence of their spouse they are so inhibited. So intimidated. There are people I have visited, many people, women mainly, on Spiritual "healing" work. And I can only see them when their partner is at work, or away. They are not free. Most relationships have boundaries which are set by the other or negotiated in compromise. This is not freedom. this is not living. It is fear. It is death. My own mother for four years has had to sneek out to see her own son in pubs and restaurants because she cannot freely invite him into her own home, for fear of my stepfather. How sad is that? how compromised? She has had years of unhappiness in her relationships. First with my father and now with this man. But she endures. Dependence can be so crippling and such an illusion. This is abuse. this is mental and emotional abuse. Yet many women and some men endure far worse than this, far, far worse; and still they endure. Some even endure the abuse of their own children. So again, let us look at the question, "how do you perceive your relationship in light of how you are coming to know God? What part does it play?" I think it is a worthy question to "go into".
Yes, it is sad, but it isn't my only observation of modern relationships. I have known of one or two healthy, happy, uncompromised relationships, but the vast majority, in my experience, seem sad. The statistics speak for themselves.
We can highlight some notable ones, Taylor and Burton, Diana and Charles, Paula Yates and Michael Hutchins, well, almost any relationship you'd care to examine in Hollywood. In politics there's been quite a few failed relationships too. But even when we look beyond the failed relationships at the ones that stick at it. The ones that endure. How many of those are really about love, companionship, friendship, respect and honour always. How many of those are truely happy. You and Dave are very lucky to have such a healthy relationship.
I have known friends who are just different people when they are on their own compared to when they are with their husband or wife. In the presence of their spouse they are so inhibited. So intimidated.
There are people I have visited, many people, women mainly, on Spiritual "healing" work. And I can only see them when their partner is at work, or away. They are not free.
Most relationships have boundaries which are set by the other or negotiated in compromise. This is not freedom. this is not living. It is fear. It is death.
My own mother for four years has had to sneek out to see her own son in pubs and restaurants because she cannot freely invite him into her own home, for fear of my stepfather. How sad is that? how compromised? She has had years of unhappiness in her relationships. First with my father and now with this man. But she endures. Dependence can be so crippling and such an illusion. This is abuse. this is mental and emotional abuse. Yet many women and some men endure far worse than this, far, far worse; and still they endure. Some even endure the abuse of their own children.
So again, let us look at the question, "how do you perceive your relationship in light of how you are coming to know God? What part does it play?"
I think it is a worthy question to "go into".
And thanks, everyone, for the nice welcome back!
Hi, Yvonne! Welcome! Cathy's question: "To those of you involved in long-term love relationships--how do you perceive your relationship in light of how you are coming to know God? What part does it play?" Dave and I have been married almost sixteen years. Most of the time I don't consider the relationship in that light. The core of my spiritual life is on a different plane from my day to day three-demensional world. Some of the things that I have learned through spiritual texts have helped me during difficult times. I am thinking in particular about the concept of living in the moment. Further, I think that being responsible for my own happiness has made a difference. Hadi, your comments on one on one relationships seem a little sad to me (possessing, devouring, controlling, killing). Of those words, I relate only to "control." I have to remind myself frequently that my husband is in control of himself, I am in control of me and we handle being in control of "us" by give and take on our best days. On our worst days, we scream a lot. Dave's perceptions about spiritual issues are largely different from mine. But I suspect that he has seen the difference that trying to live my beliefs has made in my own life. In turn, he has made me more aware that scientific claims, even by spiritual leaders, still need scientific documentation. That doesn't mean that I can't rely on my instincts or intuition. But it does mean that I am not so quick to believe such statements as "studies show..." unless I know a little about the source of the information. That helps to keep me from being swept up in spiritual fads and claims and I am more grounded. That makes me easier to live with.
Cathy's question: "To those of you involved in long-term love relationships--how do you perceive your relationship in light of how you are coming to know God? What part does it play?"
Dave and I have been married almost sixteen years. Most of the time I don't consider the relationship in that light. The core of my spiritual life is on a different plane from my day to day three-demensional world.
Some of the things that I have learned through spiritual texts have helped me during difficult times. I am thinking in particular about the concept of living in the moment. Further, I think that being responsible for my own happiness has made a difference.
Hadi, your comments on one on one relationships seem a little sad to me (possessing, devouring, controlling, killing). Of those words, I relate only to "control." I have to remind myself frequently that my husband is in control of himself, I am in control of me and we handle being in control of "us" by give and take on our best days. On our worst days, we scream a lot.
Dave's perceptions about spiritual issues are largely different from mine. But I suspect that he has seen the difference that trying to live my beliefs has made in my own life.
In turn, he has made me more aware that scientific claims, even by spiritual leaders, still need scientific documentation. That doesn't mean that I can't rely on my instincts or intuition. But it does mean that I am not so quick to believe such statements as "studies show..." unless I know a little about the source of the information. That helps to keep me from being swept up in spiritual fads and claims and I am more grounded. That makes me easier to live with.
I am reading my first book written by Deepak Chopra. "The Way Of The Wizard". It's amazing to read my own thoughts in someone elses words. I don't know anyone who thinks like I do, so I have nobody to talk to about my "discoveries". It's great for me to find a web site of people who must think like I do.
Namaste' Ghandi referred to his life as "Experiments in Truth", and that's how I look at "relationships".
Ghandi referred to his life as "Experiments in Truth", and that's how I look at "relationships".
Hey, Carol! How are you these days?!
hi Pat! reading your post made me feel very happy for you, dearOne, thanks for sharing.hi Cathy - Dr. Chopra's, Path To Love, covers the relationship questions and gives many fine answers. your own statement, about relationships, is quite beautiful, but you may enjoy reading this book, too. Namasté
hi Cathy - Dr. Chopra's, Path To Love, covers the relationship questions and gives many fine answers. your own statement, about relationships, is quite beautiful, but you may enjoy reading this book, too. Namasté
Fabulous question and questions. Many of those questions I would have answered differently in years prior. Interestingly enough, the person I am dating right now and I had a conversation surrounding this very issue. Why is it that we are dating. For what purpose? We are attracted to each other because of our spirituality and through that commonality, found out we actually have a lot in common. But we are also curious as to why we are together now. I find this whole approach refreshing and exciting because I've never had a relationship where both of us asked the same question and are genuinely interested in the answer. I think we both believe to differing degrees that we are to learn something with and through each other and what that is, we don't know. But both of us ask questions as to how our relationship relates to our closeness with God, et. al. We also believe that all physical aspects of the relationship are of the ego/physical, which are an outer expression of our inner connection, which is just fine. But we also relate to each other on so many other levels, that's what makes it so unusual. I consider myself blessed.
I find this whole approach refreshing and exciting because I've never had a relationship where both of us asked the same question and are genuinely interested in the answer. I think we both believe to differing degrees that we are to learn something with and through each other and what that is, we don't know. But both of us ask questions as to how our relationship relates to our closeness with God, et. al.
We also believe that all physical aspects of the relationship are of the ego/physical, which are an outer expression of our inner connection, which is just fine. But we also relate to each other on so many other levels, that's what makes it so unusual. I consider myself blessed.
The relationship question is one that I've been thinking about or pondering for about 20 plus years--the blessings of having parents with weird ways of relating ;-) It is a very interesting question to me, and I enjoy hearing how others approach it--I think Polly Berends books offer a fresh perspective, though initially she wrote largely about parent/child relations....anyway...I have come to conclude (usually :-)) that any circumstance contains all we have created and all we need to know God...the largest step coming in recognizing this truly vs just intellectually (like me :-)) Namaste! Cathy
"to those of you involved in long-term love relationships--how do you perceive your relationship in light of how you are coming to know God? What part does it play? Namaste! Cathy" I thought this was a very good question. "How do you perceive your relationship in light of how you are coming to know God?" I’m not sure how many people even think in these terms. The one-on-one relationship is so much about possessing. Controlling. Devouring. Killing. Some would say it is about uniting. But isn’t that the "desire"? The desire before there is a relationship? Before the relationship there is desire. After the relationship there is lack and loss. During the relationship… struggle? Conflict? Who grows from the conflict? If we grow from the conflict, is relationship conflict? Is conflict the path to God? Is the one-on-one relationship real? Or is it an illusion? A model? What is the purpose of the one-on-one relationship? Is it to bring us closer to God? Or is it to get laid? One-on-one it’s probably to get laid. But one to one, maybe it’s all different. Is there one answer? On how many levels of consciousness does this relationship exist? Is there a conflict between the different levels? Is the motive the purpose? Or is the purpose a motive? Hmmm…
I thought this was a very good question. "How do you perceive your relationship in light of how you are coming to know God?"
I’m not sure how many people even think in these terms. The one-on-one relationship is so much about possessing. Controlling. Devouring. Killing.
Some would say it is about uniting. But isn’t that the "desire"? The desire before there is a relationship?
Before the relationship there is desire. After the relationship there is lack and loss. During the relationship… struggle? Conflict?
Who grows from the conflict? If we grow from the conflict, is relationship conflict? Is conflict the path to God?
Is the one-on-one relationship real? Or is it an illusion? A model?
What is the purpose of the one-on-one relationship? Is it to bring us closer to God? Or is it to get laid? One-on-one it’s probably to get laid. But one to one, maybe it’s all different.
Is there one answer?
On how many levels of consciousness does this relationship exist? Is there a conflict between the different levels?
Is the motive the purpose? Or is the purpose a motive?
Hmmm…
i noticed some of the reactions to some recent posts here and found this statement by Dr. Chopra and felt it addressed why we react to different issues, very well. i post it here in case some might wish to consider his words. Namasté Friends~ Wednesday, September 20 , 2000 ~ Q: Are all events really neutral and it's just the way we react that gives them a value? A: All events are neutral and it's our interpretation that creates a biological response. If a doctor says to someone, "You have cancer", because he or she is coming from a position of authority, it will evoke the biological response of fear. Yet what is the word 'cancer' except a vibration of breath. If the same doctor said the same word, 'cancer', to someone who only spoke Chinese then it would not illicit that response. All responses are interpretations in consciousness. The nervous system transforms one kind of energy into another kind of energy. A word is mechanical energy of the atmosphere that begins to vibrate our eardrum which causes electrical and biochemical changes in our brain and then it's up to us to interpret what that experience is. It is literally meanings that become biology. The meanings that we give to events become our biology. That's what stress is, the interpretation of a physical or psychological threat. Stress is not in the environment, it's not in our biology, stress is in the interpretation of what is happening in the environment by the human nervous system. Therefore there are ways to go beyond this, when we choose to make a creative response to a situation instead of a reactive response. We can think of stress like waves on the surface of an ocean. If we are skillful surfers, every wave means exhilaration but, if we aren't prepared, every wave could mean disaster. So too, how we interpret the situations, circumstances and events of our lives determines what brings stress and what brings joy. www.chopra.com
~ Wednesday, September 20 , 2000 ~
Q: Are all events really neutral and it's just the way we react that gives them a value?
A: All events are neutral and it's our interpretation that creates a biological response. If a doctor says to someone, "You have cancer", because he or she is coming from a position of authority, it will evoke the biological response of fear. Yet what is the word 'cancer' except a vibration of breath. If the same doctor said the same word, 'cancer', to someone who only spoke Chinese then it would not illicit that response. All responses are interpretations in consciousness. The nervous system transforms one kind of energy into another kind of energy. A word is mechanical energy of the atmosphere that begins to vibrate our eardrum which causes electrical and biochemical changes in our brain and then it's up to us to interpret what that experience is. It is literally meanings that become biology. The meanings that we give to events become our biology. That's what stress is, the interpretation of a physical or psychological threat. Stress is not in the environment, it's not in our biology, stress is in the interpretation of what is happening in the environment by the human nervous system. Therefore there are ways to go beyond this, when we choose to make a creative response to a situation instead of a reactive response. We can think of stress like waves on the surface of an ocean. If we are skillful surfers, every wave means exhilaration but, if we aren't prepared, every wave could mean disaster. So too, how we interpret the situations, circumstances and events of our lives determines what brings stress and what brings joy.
www.chopra.com
I just read "The Angel Is Near". To say this book opened my eyes and mind would be an understatement. I startled my husband when I suddenly stood up and said "I get it!...Of course..this makes sense!" Thank you for such a soul changing book. I know the Angels light shines within you.
Hey Peggy! Good to "see" you again!!!
I was at a turning point in my life when a stranger gave me a copy of 'How to Know God'...I literaly devoured it...I was so hungry for the insight and direction it contained...As soon as I finished the book and put it down, I felt a warm reassurance that the message I had read was truth...My life has dramatically changed direction since Deepak's book...I recommend it to anyone "stuck" at their own emotional/spiritual crossroads...
I was saving my © for Peggy!
Hello Peggy! What an entrance! Your choice of comments is a yummy buffet, giving us the opportunity to choose whatever suits us most. I for one have decided to pig out and enjoy all the comments equally, without taking any to heart. Wish the same thing could be said of food...will eat everything and take nothing to hips! Alas, no luck! So pigging out on your remarks is my wisest recourse.
Namaste'Dear, dear, Pegasus. Welcome back. "We'll keep the Light on for you". (L)
Dear, dear, Pegasus. Welcome back.
(L)
hello! hello! hello! :)
CHRIS V: Namaste. Thank you for the words of beauty and wisdom quoted from the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. A lovely caress for the soul. I listen to the doves' wings and the song of the wren. Raindrops have kissed the thirsty leaves of the plants and trees throughout this day. The breezes have played as though a hundred harps and flutes were in serenade. A glorious week to you.
Speaking of faces and the spectrum of the human experience ... Aren't you glad you 'woke' me up, Hadi ... :) I'm feeling like number ... actually, they don't have a face that quite fits how I'm feeling right now ... a gestalt of several of them ...
Aren't you glad you 'woke' me up, Hadi ... :) I'm feeling like number ... actually, they don't have a face that quite fits how I'm feeling right now ... a gestalt of several of them ...
Tommye, I'm glad you liked the link. You migh also like this one which sends you to a 'random' Buddhist site. Click here Enjoy.
I'm glad you liked the link. You migh also like this one which sends you to a 'random' Buddhist site.
Click here
Enjoy.
Hadi, Yes, I see the 'face' but it seem more mischievious than grumpy to me. :) Funny thing is I didn't 'see' it till you mntioned it! Hmmm ... Actually I've been having a marvelous time just kicking back and enjoying the ebb & flow of the Forum; writing a couple of poems; reading an interesting new book by Jack Schwarz; cruising a few sites and of course Conversations with my dog. You know, I woke up this morning and realised I have absolutely no idea. It's wonderful. J [ Welcome back Peggy ... or in shorthand "Number 6 to you" ... and number 5 as well ... :)
Yes, I see the 'face' but it seem more mischievious than grumpy to me. :) Funny thing is I didn't 'see' it till you mntioned it! Hmmm ...
Actually I've been having a marvelous time just kicking back and enjoying the ebb & flow of the Forum; writing a couple of poems; reading an interesting new book by Jack Schwarz; cruising a few sites and of course Conversations with my dog.
You know, I woke up this morning and realised I have absolutely no idea. It's wonderful.
Welcome back Peggy ... or in shorthand "Number 6 to you" ... and number 5 as well ... :)
I want to Contact Mr. deepak chopra
Comments by users are not endorsed by Random House. The Deepak Chopra Forum is intended to provide a place for the exchange of information, opinions, and comments. Random House does not necessarily endorse, support, sanction, encourage, verify, or agree with the comments, opinions, or statements posted in the Forum. Any information or material placed online, including advice and opinions, are the views of those who post the statements, and does not necessarily represent the views of Random House. Privacy Policy
The Deepak Chopra Forum is intended to provide a place for the exchange of information, opinions, and comments. Random House does not necessarily endorse, support, sanction, encourage, verify, or agree with the comments, opinions, or statements posted in the Forum. Any information or material placed online, including advice and opinions, are the views of those who post the statements, and does not necessarily represent the views of Random House.
Privacy Policy
web hosting • domain names web design • online games
