Dave, after the past couple of years, there's nothing on this earth that would actually 'blow my mind'. It's been made unblowable. :) As for the puzzle, it's a bit beyond my humble deductive reasoning powers. I'm more into lateral and tangential thinking as some of you may have gathered. It's the only way to all the fun places.

Having said, that ... Wow, Carol! I am lost for words. I was only joking around in posting my address in white-on-white style. The CD will be even more of a treasure, when it arrives. Now, if it arrives with no name or postal address, I really will believe in miracles. :) Thanks a million.

Peggy, will check out your link after I post this. As for your dharma question, I've contemplated that very question or minor variations on it myself many times. The whole idea of karma and repaying karmic debt is one I'm not entirely comfortable with. I figure it's a lot like financial debt - if you get too deeply into debt how can you realistically extricate yourself from that debt by your own efforts. I still find karma a useful idea but like all concepts it's probably an incomplete description of the way the whole shebang works. On the other hand, I might just be talking a load of nonsense. Who's to say. It pays to keep an open mind about such things. Rome wasn't built in a day. Someone once told me that reality was for people who can't handle drugs. I think I'd better stop there before I say something silly.

I have several links to 'random' sites in various webrings. It can be an interesting exercise when you're going 'nowhere in particular' ... for example -

Click here for a random site in the zen webring

The other day, I found out there is a webring called the random webring. :)

Tanks again, everyone. If I receive any parcels that are ticking, I'll know they're from Dick. Now Geoff, that's not very nice ... only joking, Dick. You know I still love you, don't you ...

Time for my nap, I think ...

Attention: Would all Forum regulars who have been abducted by aliens in the past week please report to my place bright & early Monday morning.    This is NOT a drill.   Nobody will be excused unless they have a note from their mother.

Peggy - Jung would call your triple coincidence Synchronicity and others of us would see your intention in them and call it Synchrodestiny.

TO - When in the Corporate world, I had this cold view that everyone got what they deserved and those that didn't have didn't because they wouldn't work for it. As my awareness expanded, I began to realize, from a different perspective, that everyone does get exactly what they deserve but there is a new element - compassion. Compassion was not in my vocabulary then and my guess is your friend and his boss are coming from that very same place. Have faith - all in the fullness of time!!

Geoff - I got your address - seems we met there once in meditation.

Namasté

Geoff -- Would it blow what's left of your mind if an envelope with nothing on it arrived at your place? Is the Australian Postal Service able to do such feats?

In days past, back when stamps were a nickel or less, instead of about to go up to 34c, they (USA Postal types) would deliver almost anything. There's even an Urban Legend (more likely just a cute puzzle) that this address was enough to get a letter delivered:

Wood
John
Mass

What that to go on, could you deliver such a piece of mail? Could the Postal Service there? If so, your letter/CD/package could make it with the address you posted.

Geoff, click here for a demo of a random link generator.

Dear "Dick," (Guess I will have to call you two Big Dick and Little Dick...)

Little Dick, I'll take the bait!

I'm not bi-polar. Don't think that anyone has ever claimed to have seen me in a manic stage. :-)If faced with a choice, however, I had rather be called "bi-polar" than be called "Hadi." Sorry if I hurt your feelings. Maybe I have a cruel streak.

Both manic depression (bi-polar disorder) and depression are mood disorders. But they are quite different. I never get the highs that a person with bi-polar disorder experiences. I just have down periods that are somewhat controlled with medication. Being manic requires too much energy.

DaveR, you asked about an actor who might be comparable to Kevin Spacey. How about Billy Bob Thornton? I think he's even more versatile. The man could play the role of Niagra Falls convincingly and without makeup.

Big Dick, thanks for the reminder of what I used to do to let people know when the post was really by me and not just an imitation. Get your own trick though. Mine is copyrighted!

my e-mail is mcwieg@juno.com if you need to give me more info....but, i've got it as you posted it.

got it, Geoff, and the cd is on the way!

Peggy, I don't have the answer to your question about dharma but here's a place that invites such questions throught the e-mail.

click here

May you find what you're seeking.

Namaste

Dick, you're welcome anytime. :)

Dick -- There's a difference between being argumentative and being provocative. The whole thing reminds me of a mutual acquaintance of Peg's and mine. This woman is one of those who feels (or acts as if she feels) that being different is somehow being more intellectual. If nine out of ten people in her presence were to say "Hemingway is much easier to understand than Joyce" she would feel obligated to buck the tide and support the opposing point of view.

Just because some intellectuals are different from the average person, doesn't mean that being different makes one an intellectual.

Same with being provocative or negative just for the attention it brings. Sometimes, it would be fun to see that you agree with somebody, or find something they may have said to be of value. That would give you a little more of a well-rounded persona as opposed to just a negative, fault-finding one.

You may not be here to demonstrate such traits. But if you want your views to be considered as worthy of attention, it might pay to agree on something every now and then.

Just a suggestion. Do your own thing.

Dick -- Yes, I saw those movies, along with the first one I can remember Norton being in, "Primal Fear." All are good performances. In fact if you check this IMDB page there's a list of his films.

I think the reason (one of them anyway) that I would select Spacey as a more likely candidate for the "actor's actor" of the current slate of acting males, is that his list is considerably longer and represents (at least for me) a much broader range of characters. In other words, he's been versatile longer than Norton.

Length of time is no guarantee of quality, since James Dean only had three starring roles to his credit, with mostly TV and bit parts otherwise. But in Spacey's case, I do feel it's an edge over Norton.

Did you catch all the sublimnals in "Fight Club"? We had to back the tape up several times to see the details, but at least we had that advantage over theater audiences. We're forever spotting continuity errors and anachronisms in otherwise good movies, and backing up to check them out.

Dick, if you feel like it, I'd be glad to see additions to that list I gave to Brad. There's no reason anybody can't get in on this topic. It's just that Brad brought it up (I thought) and I was following a train of thought. Didn't mean to be exhaustive, and was really looking for other ideas.

Sexist I may be, but please do not insult me by implying I am Hadi!

Peggy, one minute you ask me to post, the next minute you are snarling. You are a hard "lady" to please.

I think I have discovered your ==> Dharma .

Dave, I saw your list. That's why I asked about "Fight Club". How about "American History X"? You can not say that Ed lacked range in that!

Geoff, we know where you live.

Quite clever, Geoff!

Thanks for the tip, Bob. I wonder if the CD is readily available here in the land of Oz. I shall make some enquiries. Unless someone wants to send it to me for Christmas. :)

My address is: Geoff Allen
21 King George Pde
Dandenong
Australia
3175

The smarties amongst you may be able to 'read' that address ... :)

"I don't think your twin flame or soulmate is the person who always agrees with you or shares all the same interests with you. I think it's the person who can push your buttons in life. Whoever that person is who can say one thing that pushes your button and you go into a frenzy, that's your soulmate. They're teaching you in that moment that you have not mastered your-self. I think your soul-mate is somebody who reminds you con-stantly that you still have work to do on yourself. You don't really need some-body in there agreeing with and accepting every single thing that you say. This isn't to say that someone should always be dis-agreeable. I've always said you can really learn to live with anyone. If you throw two people into a cell, you could really learn to live with anyone. To me the definition of love isn't who you can learn to live with. The true definition of love is learning who you can't live without."

Speaking of unknowingly serving purposes in other people lives, I have a coincidence to relate.

Thirty-eight years ago, a friend of mine dated a young minister and brought him with her to Sunday School class. He asked me to be a counselor in an upcoming church camp. I won't go into all of the details, but that meeting with him lead me, through twists and turns, to the life that I have now.

A couple of days ago, I received a forwarded email from a friend here in Nashville. She had received it from a cousin in another city. And that cousin had received it from someone with the same name as the young minister that I met on that long ago Sunday morning.

I sent him a note to ask if he was that particular gentleman -- and he is! Later that same day, while working on another project, I ran across a picture of him. Double coincidence.

This morning, I had lunch with the friend who forwarded me the email. She had a newspaper clipping to give to me. It was a picture of a young woman that I mentioned in my second email to the minister (one that I wrote this morning). Triple coincidence!

I do love life's little surprises! I did take advantage of the situation and told the minister what a specific difference he had made in my life. I told him how seeing him that day had led to my four grandchildren. Boy, is he going to be surprised!

Cathy, I guess I don't see the difference in the behavior that you described and in making hurtful comments -- except that we don't have to "rent space" to the intended hurt.

I can remember being enraged at the comments that CFP (Cool Font Phooey) made here at one time. I couldn't understand what the point was either. Never did. But having my anger at him disappear through meditation was an amazing experience.

I was told by a mutual friend that he was basically very shy. That left me scratching my head!

Of course, I don't know for certain that the original Dick Skep is CFP. Just kind of wishful thinking, I guess.

Regardless of who comes here, we each have the option of making something good of it. For me, the forum provides a lot of opportunities to "speak up" when I disagree with someone. That is not likely to endear me to the hearts of many posters. But I grew up conditioned not to speak up at all -- and to stifle my emotions. That did a lot of damage to me and I still pay the consequences.

At the same time, I realize that others are not here to serve as a sounding-board for my convictions. We never really know what purposes we may serve in the growth of others.

I think you already know all of this. I just needed to say it again.

Way cool!!

I got a Christmas card many years ago from a wacky friend (the only kind I have!) that was nothing but a great big Christmas tree composed of letters of the alphabet (hundreds of them). It took a lot of looking to see that the only missing letter was "L."

Yakko: What are you doing, Wakko?
Wakko: I'm writing a letter to Santa, telling him what I want for Christmas.
Yakko: Wait a minute -- hold the phone! That's not how you spell `Santa'.
Wakko: It isn't?
Yakko: No; you've got it all wrong.
Wakko: Well, how do you spell it, then?

Yakko: To spell Santa's name
Is easy to do
You write S, A, N, T
And another A, too.
But no L, no L
Santa's name has no L
And he won't be too pleased
If you don't learn to spell.

Wakko: Jack and Jill went up the hill
To fetch water from a well
But when neither one could find it
Jill started to yell.
Dot: No well, no well
Can't believe there's no well!
We walked all the way here
And I'm mad, can't you tell.

Yakko: Captain Ahab took his crew
His harpoon and set sail
And he called out to ships
Ahab : Have you seen the white whale?
Crew : No whale, no whale
No, we ain't seen no whale
Man 1: Saw a couple of dolphins
Man 2: And a big yellowtail.

YW+D : If you've listened to this tune
Then you probably can tell
That you've heard it before
It's a song you know well.
Know well, know well
It's a song you know well
And we've ruined it completely
So we all say, "Oh well."
Oh well, oh well
We'll just say, "Fare thee well"
Merry Christmas to you
And a joyous Noël.

"Ivory Towers" keeps coming to mind..........can't figure out why. Or Rome burning, or something like that.

Of course this doesn't have to do with any-one here, but I was talking to a young man tearing up the world out there (remember D2?) and pointed out some things to him about remembering where he "came from", giving back, etc.

Of course this had to do with Thanksgiving, MANY locals suffering from their addictions, the blood bank being out of blood, and a few hundred people being turned away at the Food Bank on Tuesday last week. (A good samaritan came through at the last minute with $60 food baskets for 300 families.)

In discussing his personal situation and goals the concensus was he could do some things himself, and when I brought up how he could be of great influence with the CEO of his company (a BIG one) who is personally a multi-millionaire, he said that where these guys are functioning, they haven't a clue of what's going on "out here".

Knowing the Corporate world as I do from my own experience I was trying to recall whether I was conscious of those things at the time, and I'm sure I was, as well as the Corporation itself.

Maybe the pressure cooker has changed, but at any rate I planted the seed.

Peggy - Barbara would get my vote

Namasté

Namaste'

Reporting in.

How's every-one?

I'm sure you've all noticed the yin/yang principle as it's shown up in our national election. I would think that the one who coined the phrase "compassionate/conservatism" would be the one to utilize the forces at play, wouldn't you? (L)

I thought the "cloning" words were appropriate as well when one looks at ..............

(From an earlier post (the underline is mine)):

" Dr. Chopra clarifies, "Our unfulfilled longings result in addiction which, I believe, is the #1 problem in our culture today. And addiction is just a second-class substitute for the true experience of ecstasy." "

Paint on my cruel or happy face
And hide me behind it
It takes me inside another place
Where no-one can find it

Escape
I get out when I can
Escape
Anytime I can
Escape
I'm crying in my beer
Escape
Just get me out of here

Don't get me wrong
Don't get me right
I'm not like you are
When I get home from work at night
I'm blacker and bluer

So I escape
I get out when I can
Escape
Anytime I can
Escape
I'm crying in my beer
Escape
Just get me out of here

But where am I running to?
There's no place to go
Just put on my makeup
and get me to the show
Yeah
Escape

My doctor said just come around
You'll be taken care of
And while he ran my problems down
I stole his mascara

That's how I escape
I get out when I can
Escape
Anytime I can
Escape
I'm crying in my beer
Escape
Just get me out of here
Escape

Cathy -- You make a good point about being separated (at least in terms of distance) from family. There was a period when my first wife and I (and two kids) lived under the same roof as her parents. Things went smoothly enough, but it began to dawn on me that I didn't have the space to be myself under those conditions and we eventually moved out. There was still a lot of contact with my in-laws, and their relationship with my kids hardly even changed, but at least we had that space thing that does matter.

It's not always an easy thing for someone to move out on his/her own, especially if that situation has been going on for a long time. But it is worth considering as a major step in changing self-image and self-assurance.

Peggy--I din't mean to say that Dick was hurtful to me personally--although he did say that something I said was the most ignorant statement he'd ever heard--or something to that effect :-) Not hurtful, but irritating to be misunderstood or dismissed-possibly two sides of the same coin though, eh? I've been there before, and let the dialogue with him drop without getting "angry"--I am slowly learning not to take things personally ;-) But I meant that he has made a lot of posts in response to others that were simply put-mean (like to Hadi). And the way I read his posts, it's not like he wants discussion, or that he understands or has any interest in understanding anyone's perspective but his own, but rather that he thinks those with ideas that run counter to his, idiots, and he says so in no uncertain terms. He says he is open to ideas and learning--but only if it follows his mode of understanding or world view which is/seems to me to be rational thinking. Now I grant you that this is true for most of us--we see things according to how we see the world--I just don't understand why he wants to be here...I would not join a forum of fundalmentalists--what would be the point? I think possibly he wants to hear what we have to say--though he never lets on :-) He certainly seems to have no interest in sharing lovingly why he doesn't believe what some here have shared--instead he calls people names and post links put out by people of like mind. Thanks for your kind words about my posts :-)

Brad--glad to be of service! Your book sounds great! Put me on the list to buy a copy! Hand in there and let us know how we can help you. Regarding your family--I can relate. Ever thought of moving away? I think sometimes certain relationships do better with distance :-) Not running away--just distance. It can be a very loving solution for your self and your family--doesn't need to be that far--far enough to limit frequent contact, but close enough to still see each other. I'm like that with my parents. They're an hour away...I certainly wouldn't want to live next door to them :-) You can change how you interact with them, but they don't always respond well--it gets complicated. I think less interaction and simple changes in that are a good solution, personally!

Have a good day! Cathy

Brad -- Good to hear from you again. I was wondering about you.

Don't worry about the "simmering down" thing. I'm not as riled as it may have sounded. It's just that some of these tactics are so old and moth-eaten that it would be much more clever to find some new ones. By the way, I think Carol was #2 and you were #3, if that matters at all in the content. One of the things the post counters seem to overlook or ignore is that number of posts is secondary to content of posts. I believe it's much more of what we have to say, and the honesty in saying it, than in how often we say it.

Your Bossa Nova tastes are another overlap here. Both Peg and I have been fans of the Brazilian music for decades. Pat Metheny has incorporated much of that style and mood into some of his music, and we're big fans of his, too. I believe that "Black Orpheus" may have been the first big splash in the US with samba and bossa nova. But my first real taste of it came by way of Stan Getz, Bud Shank, Laurindo Almeida, and Charlie Byrd. There must be several dozen bossa nova things in my LP collection. Jobim was so fine in his whole approach, and one of his last efforts was a tribute to the rain forest. He was a nature lover above all else, it seems.

Peg's favorite CD ever is the Getz/Gilberto collaboration, and "Girl from Ipanema" is on almost every tape she's assembled of her favorite songs. So is the theme music from "Mr. Lucky" which was one of Henry Mancini's early efforts. I'm a big Mancini fan myself, and I think our musical tastes have been one of our biggest points of connection. We were trading tapes of favorite music before we ever met face-to-face. But that's a long story and I'll save it for later, unless Peg beats me to the punch.

Keep posting here, yourself, Brad. It's good to have you on board!

Brad, I can appreciate your not wanting to involve your parents in your pain. The last thing that someone with problems like ours needs is more feelings of guilt. Because my father had terrible problems with depression for much of his life, my mother is understanding of my own problems. I do have to keep her at an emotional distance for other reasons, however. But since she is elderly, I can't be so far removed that I would feel guilt. I hope that you understand all of this. If you do, explain it to me!

I too think that all of us should feel comfortable in talking about whatever we like here. We shouldn't allow ourselves to be pressured into isolating parts of ourselves from discussion.

That doesn't mean that I don't expect people to object or that I won't object to the tone of certain posts myself! :-)

Bob, there is one Bush that would have had my vote for President -- Barbara! She is one fine woman!

Peace be with you all.

C. Little, I love your choice of names! LOL! Thanks for the link.

Cathy, I am guilty of being unaware that Dick had said hurtful comments to you. I enjoy your comments so much that it is hard for me to see why anyone would object to them!

If the original Dick is who I think it is, then I have certainly been the brunt of his criticism before myself. But that was long ago and I have no anamosity toward him.

The differences that I perceive in the original Dick Skep and the more recent Dick Skep are mostly a matter of style and wit (though not necessarily humor). Also, the more recent Dick Skep seems to think that DaveR would know who he is. The original Dick Skep would know that he doesn't.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave..."

For those of you who own or are around smoke detectors, click here for some disturbing news about their usage.

hey, Brad, send me a copy when you publish, ok? :)

Bra?

.

DaveR simmer down ol’ buddy. He’s just tryin’ ta rile ya. I was disappointed that I came in 2nd with the posts. We’ll talk about WHATEVER THE HELL WE LIKE and I like Kevin Spacey. Do what I’ve been doing lately, there’s nothing like a bit of Jo Gilberto and Carlos Jobim to calm ya down and cheer ya up. It’s perfect for the tropics. Check out “THE CARS THAT ATE PARIS”. Peter Weir’s first movie. It a bit of a ‘cult classic’.

Peggy way ta come through for us all gal. Nicely put. The reason I can’t tell my folk is that one of them is a major part of the problem and the other would blame herself and I couldn’t handle that kind of guilt. Trust me it’s easier this way.

Carol and Cathy thanks for the thoughts and the prayers. They help a lot. I’ve taken some positive steps toward a business idea I’ve had for some years. If it works I’ll write a book entitled “How to make a business work with NO MONEY.”

I've been having trouble with that cable in Asia somewhere. According to Franko I live in the FAR EAST. Cool.

You're with your baby
And you're parked alone
On a summer night
You're deep in love
But you're deeper in the woods
You think you're doin' alright

Did you hear that voice
Did you see that face
Or was it just a dream
This can't be real
That only happens, babe
On the movie screen

Oh, but he's back
He's the man behind the mask
And he's out of control
He's back
The man behind the mask
And he crawled out of his hole

You're swimmin' with your girl
Out on lovers' lake
And the wind blows cold
It chills your bones
But you're still on the make
That's a bad mistake

But the moon was full
And you had a chance
To be all alone
But you're not alone
This is your last dance
And your last romance

Yeah, cause he's back
He's the man behind the mask
And he's out of control
He's back
The man behind the mask
And he crawled out of his hole

Oh, if you see him comin'
Get away if you can
Just keep on runnin'
Run as fast as you can
He's a dangerous, dangerous man

And he's out tonight
And he's watchin' you
And he knows your house
No, don't turn out the lights

Yeah, cause he's back
He's the man behind the mask
And he's out of control
He's back
The man behind the mask
And he's after your soul

He's back
He's the man behind the mask
And he's out of control
He's back
The man behind the mask
And he's after your soul

He's back
He's the man behind the mask
And he's out of control
He's back
The man behind the mask
And he's after your soul

Peggy--I have not found all of Dick's post amicable--did not feel like we were sharing chuckles :-) Certainly sometimes he had clever things to say, but often he seemed to just be ridiculing people--as I read him, anyway. So this last post by Dick didn't strike me as anything new...just thought I'd share my perspective w/you...I am not one of his fans :-) I honor his right to be here and say whatever he feels, but I don't particularly like his style--the mask being the first obstacle. I'm sure he doesn't like my style either--asi es la vida.

Geoff--you have my vote for Prez! :-) And thanks for the Rumi-info--think I might just treat myself to a CD :-)

Franko--don't know you, but have fun in Japan!! Sounds like a grand adventure!

Night all!

Cathy

Peggy - Agree with you whole heartedly that Al's Dad would have made a much better President than Al and suggest Bush's Dad is a much better statesman that George Jr. Neither Al or George Jr. are my idea of a world leader. Does any of it make any difference in the long run - probably not.

Dave R - Thanks for the note on your Grand Daughter. I remember the day well and cherish new little ones for a multitude of reasons. I keep hoping my 27 year old daughter will think about children with her live in boyfriend of many years but so far, their careers are all that seem to matter.

Geoff - You have got to get the CD, everyone should get the CD. I am not sure it meets all of the advertised expectations but it is one of the best in many years and stands alone in the crowd.

Namasté

Dick (or whoever) -- Did you read this:

I think he deserves all the praise and accolades he's getting these days. Sean Penn, Brad Pitt, Edward Norton, Russell Crowe, Samuel Jackson, Don Cheadle, John C. Reilly, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Joe Mantegna, Jeff Bridges, and dozens more, are competent and versatile guys, but I can't think of anybody as convincing in the range of roles they've played as Spacey. Can you?

Bob, my family's ties with the Gore's family go back a long way. He's basically a nice guy as politicians go but his dad would have made a better President, I think. He was more at ease with the public.

Bush is probably an okay guy too. But he has some fundamental problems with language. And it just seems to me that the President of the United States should have a grasp on basic skills.

I think I'm to the point now that I wouldn't vote for anyone who would want the job. :-)

Bob -- just so you'll know, as I was looking back at archives, I saw the beautiful words you had to say when our newest granddaughter came on the scene. That was in March, 1999, not long before you announced you were hitting the road. Those were some special words for her scrapbook, and I wanted you to know how much they mean.

I'm a clone
I know it and I'm fine
I'm one and more are on the way
I'm two, doctor
Three's on the line
He'll take incubation another day

I'm all alone, so are we all
We're all clones
All are one and one are all
All are one and one are all

We destroyed the government
We're destroying time
No more problems on the way

I'm through doctor
We don't need your kind
The other ones
Ugly ones
Stupid boys
Wrong ones

I'm all alone, so are we all
We're all clones
All are one and one are all
All are one and one are all

Six is having problems
Adjusting to his clone status
Have to put him on a shelf
All day long we hear him crying so loud
I just wanna be myself
I just wanna be myself
I just wanna be myself
Be myself
Be myself

I'm all alone, so are we all
We destroyed the government
We're destroying time
No more problems on the way

I'm through doctor
We don't need your kind
The other ones
Ugly ones
Stupid boys
Wrong ones

I'm all alone, so are we all
We're all clones
All are one and one are all
All are one and one are all
I'm all alone, so are we all
We're all clones
All are one and one are all
All are one and one are all

As I was composing the previous message off-line, I suddenly had a strange thought - maybe I should be made president of the US. After all, the first 3 letters of my first name coincide with one candidate's first name and the first two letters of my surname (Allen) coincide with the other candidate's first name. Freaky, isn't it. In fact you can make Al Gore from the letters in my name with a few left over ... let's see GEOFFREY ALLEN take away the letters in AL GORE and what are you left with ... FLENYEF, which we all recognise as an ancient Sanskrit word meaning 'he whose mind is unclouded and uncluttered'. Surely that's a sign. :)

I suppose living in Australia might be one thing against me but then again ... with modern communications ... is it too late for my lawyers to make an appeal?

eeeeeekkk! Pegs, heh!

Cathy, I see Bob has given you the title of the CD A Gift of Love which contains the Rumi poetry. I haven't heard it myself, but here's an interesting little excerpt from a review I found:

Endocrinologist-turned-spiritual-teacher Dr. Deepak Chopra hopes that the release of the new CD set A Gift of Love -- Deepak & Friends Present Music Inspired by the Love Poems of Rumi, "may open the door for some people to experience the ecstasy of love, the only balm which can truly fulfill some of our deepest longings."

It's an interesting equation: our deepest human longings, the experience of ecstasy and the love poems of Rumi. Dr. Chopra clarifies, "Our unfulfilled longings result in addiction which, I believe, is the #1 problem in our culture today. And addiction is just a second-class substitute for the true experience of ecstasy."

The experience of ecstasy is what Chopra and Donna D'Cruz, president of raSa Records, which just released the album as its label debut, are hoping buyers will feel. To provide this experience, Chopra and D'Cruz have gathered an ensemble of some of World Music's most rapturous performers. They weave a sensual, Middle Eastern-inspired musical tapestry as background for Rumi's sensuous poetry.

"Rumi's poetry is an expression of universal love," says D'Cruz. "And for me, the new translations by Deepak and Fereydoun Kia on A Gift of Love feel even more languid, poignant and personal than earlier ones." Chopra says Rumi's poetry "expressed the deepest longings of the human heart for its beloved, for the transcendent intimacy that's the source of the divine." ...

"The possibility of opening these doorways to our inner experience of ecstasy is the reason we think people will want to own this special collection," notes D'Cruz. "Not too many CDs suggest such a possibility,"

Click here for the full details.

Anyone out there have a copy? Did it 'work' the way its creators hoped?

Quote of the day:
'Science analyses the graspable. Meditation explores the ungraspable.' - Anon

Peggy - Another thought before movie night with the bride.

Al Gore is about 10 hours older than me. He too is a 1948 model Aries. You know how bad I can be at times when I loose it and that is after much meditation and being away from that dog eat dog environment for years.

I don't see him meditating and he is in the thick of the battle - take it from me - he would do anything to win!

Namasté

Peggy - Don't under estimate dear Albert. If that is what it takes for him to win, he will work the count until it shows all of us having gone to Florida and voting for him.

I wouldn't want to get in his way - he would run over you without giving it a second thought.

Namasté

Tsk! Tsk! Your gender attitudes are showing again. Dave feeds himself. You lack Dick's wit, Dick #2.

Make that the last two posts by Dick Skep...

The last post by Dick Skep was too arrogant and hostile to be the same skeptic that we've been laughing with for a few weeks. It's also not as clever. It's sad when those personality traits come through even in a post using someone else's name.

Lennie, you are cool!

I didn't take the post count as criticism.

Do you realize that if everyone who has ever posted here had moved to Florida and voted for Al Gore, he would be President-elect?

That thought wasn't meant to frighten you, Carol! :-)

I'm going to check out Tom's links...

Dave, wassup buddy? You sound pissed. I thought you was my No.1 fan?

I know you wanted me to be CoolFont. That would have been neat. I bet you've been trying to sell that idea real hard.

And what do you mean "Dick -- real and phony ones", no one else has jumped to THAT conclusion. Why have you?

You may not have noticed a difference, Dave, but I have. For one thing, no one's talking about our favorite movies or our favorite movie stars. How about that Kevin Spacey? What a guy! You asked if anyone could think of someone as good as our Kev. How about Ed Norton? Did you see the film "Fight Club", Dave?

hehe...

Peggy, why is Dave so grouchy? Have you noticed a change in him, lately. An unusual agitation, perhaps? What are you feeding him? Dharma? Give the man some meat!

Franko!! Congratulations! What a surprise and an adventure. I used to live in Nagoya,Japan. Very interesting place. Do keep in touch with us and let us know where and when you land!

Syanara!

When you come back, tell me where Lake O'Hara is!

Hope to see you soon. I will have access for the next month so plan to be by and not just do the drive by posting!

Nice to see you as well. Enjoy the logical squares. Be careful of that noose held by the rook!

Life has been good. I quit my job and am heading to the far east!! The plan is to be in Japan by Jan. I finish an ESL cert. by mid December. I have been teaching english classes at a local college and love it. Then in a year or two I will return to North America and pick up by Bachelor of Education (After) Degree (s/b able to do it one year as I already have a degree). Getting close to going. I still have alot of work to do. Have to sell furniture, get the passport, finalize a contract et al.

Things have been quite interesting. Had a great time at a Sufi camp at Lake O'Hara in the Rockies. Must be the most beautiful place on earth. Met some lovely people. God is Love, Lover, and Beloved.

How are things over there?

Mostly darts! I'm heading out for the little chess class thingy. Back in an hour or so. Hope to catch up on all your latest doings. Still tugging at that bass?

So great to see you!

Hi Dave! What's up?? Jazz Schmazz!! Tossed any dwarves recently?? Salads even??

Hosh Badam!

Franko! Compadre!

You must have felt my vibes, is all I can say. I have spent the last several days traipsing back through the archives here, and every time I run across your posts (not just the ones where you and I just threw caution to the wind and sailed away into la-la land) I think "there's at least one guy who has his defecation in one location."

I hope your return isn't just a drive-by this time. It's time for some crazy stuff again, and some of your newly gained insights.

How have you been? What's shaking? Que pasa?

The Universe has conspired to bring us to this point here at this particular time.

I truly enjoyed the Pat MacDonald's poem about the two medicines. I enjoyed the reference of Billy Joel's "the stranger". Being able to feel, and being able to be real.

Lies don't help us because they are like bricks that crumble. Eventually you expend all your energy replacing the crumbling bricks. Better to put one in place that is going to last. A "true" brick.

Namaste' all.

Thanks, Lennie. You have always been good at saying what you feel, and I really like that.

PLEASE DO NOT STOP POSTING,I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM SCROLLING BY BORING OR WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER USLESS VERBAGE.BUT I WOULD MISS YOU AND A LOT OF OTHERS.SO DO NOT HOLD BACK OR MAYBE YOU WERE JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT. ANY WAY KEEP ON POSTING !!!!!!!!! AND I MAY GET BIT FOR SAYING THIS BUT I FIND YOUR POSTS HAVE A LOT TO SAY AND NOT SO AIRY FAIRY.THERE I SAID IT I KNOW SOME PEOPLE HATE THAT WORD BUT IT JUST SEEMS TO FIT SOMETIMES.

One more thing.

Now that the anonymizer sites are available to anybody with the patience to use them, anybody can be Dick Skep or DaveR or Joe Blow if they want to. Muddies the water a great deal for real identities.

The IP#'s don't lie, though. I post as DaveR from my own IP# -- which does vary in small ways based on the connection my ISP allows my logon when I connect. If you see a DaveR with some other IP#, it ain't me!

The beauty/curse of the anonymizer(s) is that that attribute is removed and you have to use other methods (guesses primarily) to gauge the authenticity of the person posting.

Just in case you didn't know those things, and were thereby confused.

To whom it may concern:

I deliberately held back in posting, after Dick(?) drew attention to the numbers of posts (words even) that I have placed here in the past 400 posts or so. My main idea was to see how much difference it would make if I weren't participating as regularly as I had been.

I see no appreciable difference in subject matter, number of people posting, quality of discourse, or anything significant, except fewer DaveR posts and fewer references to Dave.

That tells me that whatever effect my posting -- or not -- has on this place is in somebody else's mind. I won't be renting that space in my head for such nonsense.

It has been said hundreds of times here, but I'll say it again for those who may not have read it, if you don't like a post, scroll past it. If you do like it, and feel like it, respond.

If Random House decides there are too many posts here, regardless of who posted them, they have several options to remedy that. If you want your feelings considered by Random House, write them some e-mail. Otherwise, you're just whistling a happy tune as far as I can tell.

Dick -- real and phony ones -- just what is your purpose here with the post counts and who's number one and all that?

Is it to run me off?

Are you wanting a battle of numbers?

Are you bored with the lack of Deepak references?

Are you angry at Hadi?

Is there something you want to say, but haven't the balls (ovaries?) to say?

Carol -- ludicrous is how I would put it, too!

hi D2, i hope you are rested up some, and i found your comments interesting, thanks.

Dick, deny all you want but it is my opinion, that you are indeed, the great Cool One! not that my opinion counts, one way or the other, but for anyone to continue to accuse/imply that Dave R is Dick is ludicrous, imho.

Interesting, just having some fun checking my online horoscope at freewillastrology.com, where they make refrence to the "gut feeling" people have.

They included two links on a discovery that the stomach contains "brain like" nerve cells in its lining

Link 1 is a news story on the discovery.

Link 2 is a short description of the book, The Second Brain, by Michael D. Gershon.

Presidential elections are planned distractions
To divert attention from the action behind the scenes
Like a game of chess when the house is a mess
Or a petty money squabble when your marriage is in trouble
Or a football game when there's rioting in the streets

It's just another movie, another song & dance
Another poor sucker who never had a chance
It was just another captain goin' down with the ship
Just another jerk takin' pride in his work

I was a poor magician
I could never understand
You can't make tears disappear
Through slight of hand
From the bottom of my heart
Off the top of my head
Words were pulled like rabbits from a hat
But nothin' was said

It was just another movie, another song & dance
Another poor sucker who never had a chance
It was just another captain goin' down with the ship
Just another jerk takin' pride in his work

Now my freedom's bought & paid for
It lights up my living room
I got nothing more to prove
I got no reason to move
And when I'm tired of the program
When it's taken its toll
I can press a button & change the channel
By remote control

But it's just another movie, another song & dance
Another poor sucker who never had a chance
It was just another captain goin' down with the ship
Just another jerk takin' pride in his work

Hi, Dick! I'm trying to recall anything that Yoo Hoo posted that fit in the category of mumbo jumbo. (But then I have a bad memory...)

Yeah, Cool Font Phooey and I had a rough time at first but my feelings of antagonism toward him went away suddenly as a result of an experience during meditation. I could get annoyed from time to time after that but basically, I think his first name suited him.

Denis admiring Pilar's rage towards a stranger... I know that a few years ago when I was unhappiest with myself, I would just swear up and down at other drivers for the least offense. Almost got into a fight one day as I pulled into the driveway and noticed a car parked facing the wrong way at the curb in front of my house. Though I used to park on the wrong side occasionally too, after driving around town and raging at others, I said out loud, "what an asshole." Well, my window was down and so was the other car's. There was a guy and girl in the car with shocked looks on their faces and the guy got out and confronted me for calling him an asshole. His rational for parking on the wrong side of the street was he worked for the newspaper. We argued for a couple of minutes, then I apologized that he was an asshole and he drove off. But the problem wasn't with him, the problem was with myself. I was unhappy with something in my life at the time and was taking it out on others.

Sorry Peggy. I've been so busy searching the archives lately, I haven't had a chance to slip on my mask.

Dave, I know what you mean about Mr CoolFont. I was an admirer myself. The things that distinguish me from him, however, are that he actually did believe in some of this mumbo jumbo and expressed it in his postings under the name of YooHoo. Remember?

He also had precious little affection for either you or your lovely Peggy. CoolFont was rarely partisan, except with Silvia. And who wouldn't be?

No, I am not CFP. But then, you already know that, Dave. I mean, we hear Carol and Bob F and Hadi talking about "knowing", well in this case, surely YOU "know". hehe...

Dharma is Cinerama for sheep. Try IMAX and you WILL believe.

Absolutely. We learn from everything. The problem is we spend much of our life seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. When 'good' things happen, we tend to get lost in the 'good', strive and seek only 'good' things and avoid all things 'bad' or 'painful'. 'Pain' though allows us to see and appreciate 'good', thus we whirl around and bounce off the walls in this seeming divine dichotomy of life.

The real problem is our need to label things as 'good' or 'bad' rather than just accepting them as they are. When I read about Pilar's rage at the guy in the auto I thought 'how cool that she can feel and express something in that situation'. She then expressed horror at her reaction because most of us get caught up in what everybody else says we're supposed to be thinking and feeling because it is either politically correct OR within the frame of reference of the person judging them OR (horrors) the judgement is coming from someone outside of you to whom you look with more respect than you may have for yourself.

Everything is as it should be whether we surrender and let it happen or not. Even if we don't surrender and fight, it is also as it should be. Look at our past friction as an example. Everything was perfection. There were lessons for both of us to learn and they will be repeated over and over and over again until learned. The problems came when we both thought we were trying to learn (or, alas, teach) the same lesson.

And that's the truth bluuuuuuhhhhhhhh....

Bob, thanks for the CD title, and Geoff, thanks for the links!

Peggy, I have a comment on the dharma thing though I only have an idea of what it means and what others here have said about it... you asked if it was interfereing with dharma to feed oneself when hungry--I think you're taking it too far :-) My understanding of dharma is that it is one's life's calling or work or reason for being incarnated in particular circumstances. It's not about the details of daily existence for the most part. And, as I understand it (which is not how the hare krishna students were understanding it--I think that was a case of abusing religious terms/ideas--as with the concept of sin in Christianity)--dharma is not meant to confine you to your circumstances. While it is a "bigger picture" way to look at one's life, it does not require that you do nothing to transcend or change your circumstance. I think there can be many factors or interconnections going on. As an example, in the case of a homeless and hungry person--at the soul level they have chosen this existence. But perhaps it is so they can learn to overcome the belief in scarcity or need. Or perhaps it is because they will give opportunity to others to show compassion and generosity. Perhaps it is karmic debt. Who knows? And it doesn't really matter "why" for me. But more, what do I choose to be in response to what I see. But while I choose to show compassion, I can also choose peace with the knowledge that "it's all as it should be"--that doesn't mean inaction or lack of compassion...nor does it mean pity and feeling somehow "superior" or more "advanced" because I have attracted a better life for myself (that kinda reminds me of that Calvinism, was it? whereby one could tell whom God loved by their posperity??) Though I do admit that I sometimes see people who are so wrapped up in their "problems" and sorta think that they bring a lot of it on themselves and think that somehow I have done "better" (not my best moments )--I'm thinking more "trivial" problems vs really hard things like homelessness etc..though I do think it's all the same deal--just that most things have many levels of creation, in my view. Anyway--seems like I'm talking in circles :-) Which is fitting, I suppose--ha ha.

And yes, one can learn from joy and affluence as I see it! One can learn the actual value of things vs relationships--or what's really important. One can learn that Life can be easy and. One can learn to share and be generous. One can enjoy creativity in ways that are more available to people who have leisure time (I'm thinking of enjoying literature, movies, games etc...)

Anyway, gotta go! Hope this helps, though I don't know how accurate my idea of dharma is--doesn't really matter because it wouldn't really change my thoughts on Life that I just shared :-)

Good night! Cathy

Cathy - The CD's title is actually "A Gift of Love". The lyrics of the CD were taken from the book "Love Poems of Rumi".

Namasté

Geoff - Great Rumi links - thanks. He, Tagore and a few others are some of my favorite spiritual poets.

Cathy - I had mentioned the "Love Poems of Rumi", a CD translated by Coleman Barks, compiled by Deepak and read by a host of celebrities. It is a great X Mas gift for yourself!!!!

Namasté

Dick, if you don't comment soon, I'm going to be forced to post something smug and arrogant just to lure you back.

I know. No one would notice a difference in my posts. (Sigh)

Brad, your situation is puzzling to me. If you feel comfortable in doing so, would you consider sharing why it is necessary for you to keep your illness from your parents?

Age differences matter very little. You'll understand when you are older. ;-)

Honest questions for anyone: If there is no duality, then do we interfere with our own dharma if we feed ourselves when we are hungry? Is that different from feeding someone else?

Tonight on the tube, 20/20 Downtown did a piece on the abuse of children in Hare Krishna boarding schools. One of the things that the children were taught is that suffering is their dharma. Thus, their abuse was justified.

Are joy and affluence ever part of someone's dharma? Aren't there things to be learned from the pleasant things that happen to us?

Here is one of my favourite Rumi poems:

Ask and you shall receive. :) Here's a couple of Rumi links I found after I saw your question.

Rumi Poetry

More Rumi

Paintings inspired by the poetry of Rumi

The Still Point of Ecstasy plus a few links to Rumi sites

Enjoy.

A quick excerpt -

"Jelaluddin Rumi was born in the region today known as Afghanistan in 1207. His family fled the Mogul invasion to Konya, Turkey where he spent most of his life.

Rumi following in his father's ancestoral line became a scholar until his meeting with the wandering dervish, Shams of Tabriz. Of this meeting Rumi said, "What I had thought of before as God, I met today in a person."

After Shams, Rumi's other strong influences were Saladin Zarkub, the goldsmith, and later his scribe, Husam.

His poetry filled with a longing to be with the Friend, Him, or You. Are these mysterious pronouns the names of God, Shams, or who? This is for you, the reader to ponder.

Rumi founded the Mevlevi Order of dervishes, better known as the Whirling Dervishes of Sufism. Through a turning movement, body posturing, mental focus, and sound, the dervish achieves ecstasy through union with God. Once a secret society, today the Mevlevi tour the world allowing audiences to witness the ceremony of their sacred dances and music."

It is also interesting to note that similar to other major religions, Islam frowns upon dancing and using words such as "gamble," "drunk," and "wine" which you find throughout Rumi's and other great Islamic and Sufi poets writings. Obviously they mean "drunk" on God's grace, but that's not to say they wouldn't be outcast by religious fundamentalists today.

Peggy--I enjoyed your story. And I like the thing your Dad did-unique idea :-) I try to donate each month to an "earth" cause and a "social" cause. My husband has different ideas about giving though--he prefers to help people directly. People that he knows or has met. So I don't have loads of cash to give, as I give out of my grocery/misc money :-) Anyway, I'll figure something--we're trying to make our home-ed group party have a service component--maybe just collecting food for homeless...maybe making decorations for someone...

Brad, glad to hear you feel comfortable with us, and hope that as a whole we prove to be a help for you on your journey :-)

Dave, I like the Edison quote! How true even in non scientific endeavors...

Bob F-I liked the Rumi quote as well--who or what is Rumi, anyway? I've heard Deepak mention it/him/her--isn't it/he/she poems or a poet of Indian origins? Seems like you mentioned an audio tape that involves Rumi, didn't you?

Well, time to write all my Christmas cards and buy and wrap all my gifts--should be done tomorrow--ha! That dang Richard! ;-) Don't forget to recycle your wrapping paper! And to give earth friendly gifts and gifts of time and entertainment when possible/appropriate! And to send your ols Christmas cards to St Jude's ranch to help raise money for orphaned kids!

Merriment and peace!

Cathy

Why :-) do :-) you :-) say :-) that? :-) I've :-) been :-) here :-) all :-) the :-) time! ;-) And :-) what :-) about :-) Pat :-) and :-) ICB? :-) Don't :-) they :-) count? :o)

Did everyone take the day off after a long Thanksgiving Day weekend??

Well we all have a face
That we hide away forever
And we take them out and show ourselves
When everyone has gone
Some are satin some are steel
Some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of the stranger
But we love to try them on

Well we all fall in love
But we disregard the danger
Though we share so many secrets
There are some we never tell
Why were you so surprised
That you never saw the stranger
Did you ever let your lover see
The stranger in yourself?

Don't be afraid to try again
Everone goes south
Every now and then
You've done it, why can't
Someone else?
You should know by now
You've been there yourself

Once I used to believe
I was such a great romancer
Then I came home to a woman
That I could not recognize
When I pressed her for a reason
She refused to even answer
It was then I felt the stranger
Kick me right between the eyes

Well we all fall in love
But we disregard the danger
Though we share so many secrets
There are some we never tell
Why were you so surprised
That you never saw the stranger
Did you ever let your lover see
The stranger in yourself?

Don't be afraid to try again
Everyone goes south
Every now and then
You've done it why can't
Someone else?
You should know by now
You've been there yourself

You may never understand
How the stranger is inspired
But he isn't always evil
And he isn't always wrong
Though you drown in good intentions
You will never quench the fire
You'll give in to your desire
When the stranger comes along.

Hairstyles and attitudes,
Are they connected?
Are styles we embrace a matter of taste,
Or values rejected?
Hairstyles and attitudes,
How do they relate?
How well do we use the freedom to choose
The illusions we create?

Blowdried, bouffant, basic training, cops in drag
Dressed up like whores, cowboys in pony tails,
Bankers in bangs, presidents in pompous pompadours
Mommies in mohawks, daddies in dreadlocks,
Heavy metal goldilocks, trying to look tough,
The wet look, the dry look, the FBI look,
But can you judge a crook by his cover-up?

Hairstyles and attitudes,
Are they connected?
Are styles we embrace a matter of taste,
Or values rejected?
Hairstyles and attitudes,
How do they relate?
How well do we use the freedom to choose
The illusions we create?

Razorcut, lazercut, chopped and channelled,
Curled-up, slicked back, hanging in the eyes,
Parted left, parted right, straight down the middle,
Scientists say your hair never lies, they've done lots of research,
It may be just hype, but the latest findings cause me to tremble,
They've categorized us into three basic types,
By which of the Three Stooges we most closely resemble

Hairstyles and attitudes,
Are they connected?
Are styles we embrace a matter of taste,
Or values rejected?
Hairstyles and attitudes,
How do they relate?
How well do we use the freedom to choose
The illusions we create?

Pat Mac Donald - The true medicine is nonduality - from that place, we don't need either laughter or tears.

Namasté

I have lived on the lip of insanity
Wanting to know the reasons,
Knocking at the door.

It Opens.

I have been knocking from the inside.

----Rumi

Two medicines
I need them everyday
Two medicines
To keep the doctor away
One to drown my sorrows
One to face my fears
Laughter and tears
Laughter and tears

Two medicines
I swear they ain't no crime
Two medicines
And they don't cost a dime
They heal the body
Cleanse the soul
Help me master
Self control
Two medicines
Have helped me through the years
Laughter and tears
Laughter and tears

Two medicines
Life's little pleasures
Two medicines
To help relieve the pressures
Pressures from without
Pressures from within
Pressure in my bloodstream
Pressure on my skin
Pressure from my elders
Pressure from my peers
Laughter and tears
Laughter and tears

There was a man so masculine
He would not take his medicine
No pain could penetrate his pride
He kept his feelings locked inside
His final years were such a waste
That when he died his dear wife placed
Upon his grave this epitaph:
His life was so funny he forgot to laugh

Two medicines
Are all we really need
Two medicines
Effectiveness guaranteed
They aid communication
Make for better sex
You can mix the two together
With no bad side effects
Two medicines
To help you through the years
Laughter and tears
Laughter and tears

Two medicines
I need them everyday
Two medicines
To keep the doctor away
One to drown my sorrows
One to face my fears
Laughter and tears
Laughter and tears

If you like word puzzles beyond the normal crossword variety, you might like Puzzability for some very clever ones.

Be sure to work the "Say What?" puzzle every week, because the payoff to solving it is usually a provocative quotation from a famous person.

This week's is from Thomas Edison, and says:

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not "Eureka!" but "That's funny."

The new puzzles are available on Mondays, so if I spoiled this week's for you, bookmark the site and tune in next week. There are daily Hangman-styled puzzles in the "Common Knowledge" section that keep me checking in every day.

Carol, I bet that's Steve Martin.

S. Martin, i have a friend named Sandy Martin, heh! and i thought i was the ONLY one that knew of Yip si lan ti, Michigan, haha!

Looking out over the East River from my jail cell, and still running for public office, I realize that I have taken several actions in my life for which I owe public apologies.

Once, I won a supermarket sweepstakes even though my second cousin was a box boy in that very store. I would like to apologize to Safeway Food, Inc., and its employees. I would like to apologize to my family, who have stood by me, and especially to my wife Karen. A wiser and more loyal spouse could not be found.

When I was twenty-one, I smoked marijuana every day for one year. I would like to apologize for the next fifteen years of anxiety attacks and drug-related phobias, including the feeling that when Ed Sullivan introduced Wayne and Shuster he was actually signaling my parents that I was high. I would like to apologize to my wife Karen, who still believes in me, and to the Marijuana Growers Association of Napa Valley and its affiliates, for any embarrassment I may have caused.

I would also like to mention a little incident that took place in the Holiday Inn in Ipsilante, Michigan, during that same time. As I was lying in bed in Room 342, I began counting the ceiling tiles. Since the room was square, it was an easy computation, taking no longer than the weekend. As Sunday evening rolled around, I began to compute how many imaginary ceiling tiles it would take to cover the walls and floor of my room. When I checked out of the hotel, I flippantly told the clerk that it would take twelve hundred and ninety-four imaginary ceiling tiles to fill the entire room. Two weeks later, while attempting to break the record for consecutive listenings to "American Pie," I realized I had included the real tiles in my calculation of imaginary tiles; I should have subtracted them from my total. I would like to apologize to the staff of the Holiday Inn for any inconvenience I may have caused, to the wonderful people at Universal Ceiling Tile, to my wife Karen, and to my two children, whose growth is stunted.

Several years ago, In California, I ate my first clam and said it tasted "like a gonad dipped in motor oil." I would like to apologize to Bob 'n' Betty's Clam Fiesta, and especially to Bob, who I found out later had only one testicle. I would like to apologize to the waitress, June, and her affiliates, and to the DePaul family dog, who suffered the contents of my nauseated stomach.

There are several incidents of sexual harassment I would like to apologize for:

In 1992, I was interviewing one Ms. Anna Floyd for a secretarial position when my pants accidentally fell down around my ankles as I was saying, "Ever seen one of these before?" Even though I was referring to my new Pocket Tape Memo Taker, I would like to apologize to Ms. Floyd for any grief this misunderstanding might have caused her. I would also like to apologize to the Pocket Tape people and their affiliates, and to International Hardwood Designs, whose floor my pants fell upon. I would especially like to apologize to my wife Karen, whose great understanding fills me with humility.

Once, in Hawaii, I had sex with a hundred-and-two-year-old male turtle. It is hard to argue that it was consensual. I would like to apologize to the turtle, his family, the Kahala Hilton Hotel, and the hundred or so diners who were eating at the Hilton's outdoor café. I would also like to apologize to my loyal wife Karen, who had to endure the subsequent news item in the "Also Noted" section of the Santa Barbara Women's Club Weekly.

In 1987, I attended a bar mitzvah in Manhattan while wearing white gabardine pants, white patent-leather slippers, a blue blazer with gold buttons, and a yachting cap. I would like to apologize to the Jewish people, to the state of Israel, to my family, who have stood by me, and to my wife, Karen, who has also endured my seventeen affairs and three out-of-wedlock children. Further, I would like to apologize to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, for referring to its members as "colored people." My apology would not be complete if it didn't include my new wife, Nancy, who is of a pinkish tint, and our two children, who are white-colored.

Finally, I would like to apologize for spontaneously yelling the word "Savages!" after losing six thousand dollars on a roulette spin at the Choctaw Nation Casino and Sports Book. When I was growing up, the meaning of this word in our household closely approximated the Hawaiian "Aloha," and my use of it in the casino was meant to express "Until we meet again."

Now, on with the campaign!

thanks, Bob F, i'll be looking forward to the time that you can record and send the tapes. let me know what i need to do in response?

BOOOOO! Richard!! ;)

beautiful story, Peggy, thanks for sharing....

i loved the things to ponder, too, Pegs!

Dear, Brad, here's a little prayer that the door of happiness will open wide for you, today.

Pilar, acceptance and surrender always works real good for me, i hope it does for you, too!

Thank you all for the support. I do not participate in forums, but this may be meaningful, at least for awhile, to gain a new perspective, to really change my perception, for I cannot cannot keep calling my friends raging about my relationships. I have read Deepak, and I am a major follower of my friend Dr. Carolyn Myss and course, Gary Zukav...I read a little excerpt about anger from him today, and he says don't project it, really take a look at what's driving it. My boss says, a former actor, look at the 7 Whys!!! Why am I feeling this? Yesterday, coming home on the highway, the traffic was so horrific, and I turned around at a dead stop and started screaming at a young man who was too close. God, don't I get it? He could have pulled a 57 magnum Don't I get that this rage can destroy me ultimately? Anyway, my rel. w/the unavailable man, whom I 'think' is emotionally abusing me by not calling to just even check in, is igniting every part of my self righteousness, rage, and victimization. Hence, I'm looking at this through a broader lens---this is such a lesson to help me not burn my bridges, slash and burn, and maybe take a hard look at my emotions/reactions. Hey guys, why do they say,um excuse me, but that person in the relationship is YOU??! Like attracts like...And my friend told me that he needs to be accepted exactly for who he is. And maybe he is testing me....to really see if I can, well, he's doing a good job. Oh my I'm prating endlessly...All I can do now is take it a day at a time and pray for all, esp. him. I think I'm hurting cus I'm recieving so much of his negative energy....for he is shutting down and will not reach out and let anyone know what is going on with him....So I choose acceptance and surrender today.

Peggy great posts. Very inspiring.

When I was about 16 I began to train in Martial Arts. A very strict and strong (in the physical sense) form of Karate known as Kyokoshin. We would train for two hours at a time. The first hour was for basics, hundreds of kicks, punches etc up and down the room. Four and a half years I trained. As mentioned in earlier posts, I don't have the killer instinct so when the injuries began to mount up I quit. But from all the basics I still move my body in the same way. Defensive reflex actions are precise and quick. I'm no Bruce Lee but the physical 'key' had been set.

Mentally, it's a different matter. Maybe just harder, but you have the concious/subconcious battle. I feel that the conscious is actually fairly weak but if it can go through the motions often enough and regularly enough then maybe positive change can result. That maybe the eighteen or so years it takes us to get through childhood. I and many others spend the best part of our adult lives trying to reshape that key.

I believe that I have been trying this, on my own for at least 20 years and I’m damned if I can notice one bit of extra happiness in my life from the inside. I make a distinction here, between intrinsic and extrinsic happiness. "I OK because i'm a good person or I’m OK because everything is fine right now." But Richard and Cathy might have something. One thing I wanted to say to Pilar was to look to small and practical steps to solve a tangible situation. Maybe what you are telling us needs to be said to him? In a nice way offcourse.

Peggy I don't have a therapist (psychoanalysis?) or a psychiatrist. I have to keep the whole thing from my family so in a small town it's all I can do to get the Medication. I changed from Proz to Effexor about three years ago. I don't know what the difference has been really except I don't sweat as much. A shrink that I did see pointed out to me that I am prone to shoot myself in the foot, which is typical with this kind of illness. I have noticed on many occasions that I am much more comfortable (not happy) with failure. Success for me is often difficult, not only to deal with but to identify.

BobF I have often thought about that karmic lesson thing. Something happened to me in the eighties (nothing weird but personal) that was so painful, so monumental that it had the air of the surreal almost biblical in its proportions (at least in my head). I could not believe it was happening to me! I lost more than one dream at that time and I have been treading water ever since. I do know that negative thoughts pop up and destroy me. They sabotage even the best of times.

I didn't actually have the view of this place being like group therapy and I hope none of you will be offended but most of you seem a little older than me and seem to have progressed through life on reasonably acceptable pathways. Not all I'm sure. But I do feel comfortable here and I am willing to hear and learn and maybe help. Brad.

How affluent are you? The following was sent to me from a friend over the Thanksgiving holidays:

"In the spirit of Thanksgiving, the following is something to ponder.

If I woke up this morning with more health than illness, I am more blessed than the million who will not survive this week.

If I have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation, I am ahead of 500 million people in the world.

If I can attend a church meeting without fear of harassment, arrest, torture, or death, I am more blessed than three billion people in the world.

If I have food in the refrigerator, clothes on my back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep, I am richer than 75% of this world.

If I have money in the bank, in my wallet, and spare change in a dish someplace, I am among the top 8% of the world's wealthy.

If I hold up my head with a smile on my face and am truly thankful, I am blessed because the majority can, but most do not.

If I can hold someone's hand, hug them or even touch them on the shoulder, I am blessed because I can offer healing touch.

If I can read this message, I just received a double blessing in that someone was thinking of me, and furthermore, I am more blessed than over two billion people in the world that cannot read at all."

Namaste

Cathy, this is an answer to your question about community service but the story goes back eleven years.

After my dad died in 1989, I had a lot of trouble dealing with the grief. It triggered a battle with depression and I had to quit teaching because of it.

To try to make myself feel better, I would go for a walk every day. One day, as I passed a certain magnolia tree that I loved, I found a penny. Lucky me, I thought, and I put that penny in the removeable head of my walking stick.

A few days later, as I approached the magnolia tree, I saw another penny. It made me think about how my dad used to put coins along the street because he knew a poor man who road his bicycle for miles each day looking for lost coins. And I thought to myself that maybe these pennies were a way that my dad had for giving me a nudge. I decided that if I found another penny at the same tree, I would acknowledge that these pennies were not just a coincidence.

The very next day, there was my penny waiting for me at the magnolia tree.

So I began to collect pennies that I found and I called them my "pennies from heaven." Last September I decided to take the pennies that I had found, match them and send a check to the local homeless mission for Thanksgiving. Before filling out the check, I asked DaveR if he would like to contribute too. He did and I matched his funds too. All together we fed thirty people on Thanksgiving Day.

I thought about just keeping the pennies and sending the check. But I've decided that pennies from heaven need to be in circulation. So, with the exception of the original three, I'm cashing them in.

Now I find pennies almost every day. I found three in a pair of shoes last week, two when I went out for some air on Thanksgiving Day.

My father was a very compassionate and giving person. He always believed in helping anyone down on their luck. I know he would have liked what has become of those pennies.

So, the next time that you find a coin, consider setting it aside to help someone next year. I would dearly love to see the idea spread. And giving is certainly a way of expressing gratitude at Thanksgiving.

Thanks for asking.

Geoff & Cathy - It seems we are in agreement that we, at some level, manifest all sickness / healing / wellness that our physical bodies encounter. Just as we manifest all that is!

Peggy - I think I know what you mean in that if the mind is the part that is sick - how does it positively reinforce healing itself? This area involving the mind actually being sick is fuzzy for me for it is our main vehicle determining how we perceive "reality".

That being said, I think an illness of the mind (as well as any other part of the body) is being manifested by our spirit within the confines of karmic lessons we need to learn. Therefore, it seems possible, that once we learn whatever karmic lesson we are supposed to from the mental illness, our spirit would return our mind to wholeness. Then again, I could be way out in left field.

Namasté

Geoff-

I have thought of that same thing--that we manifest illness as well :-) As I mentioned here once before, in my opinion, most people don't consciously manifest everything--there are levels, and reasons etc...that we may not be aware of that influence things. Now we can work to become aware, or we can also just operate on the assumption that things are as they should be--which could include efforts to overcome illness--but with a sense of detachment from the ultimate outcome--seems sorta paradoxical eh? To affirm health or whatever, but welcoming whatever results. I used to think that this was just an out for this whole idea--a way to incorporate continued illness despite efforts etc...so that you couldn't claim the whole idea a farce :-) I know many of you probably still think that is the case...but, for whatever reason it makes sense to me. Not unlike thinking God answers some prayers but not all prayers--or that He answers them though we don't always understand the whys. Whatever, I think it's a great way to live--to feel that there is hope and power available to you, and that whatever results is okay--very peaceful :-)

You all gave Pilar great advice! I'll just add my wish for resolution of the anger and hurt...it'll come!

Richard, you dirty dog! I haven't started shopping or cards! But I do like doing things in December--feels more holidayish for me :-) One day when my kids are grown, I'll be like you :-) I used to be organized :-)

Anybody do anything "special" for the holidays as far as community service type things? I try to do small projects around this time and would enjoy inspiration. I try to do things year round, actually, but they often center more around the environment. I'd like to do some sort of volunteer work that was more people oriented--am exploring possibilities...

Happy Holidays!

Peggy--Regarding your question--I'm thinking that if one could force oneself to do some sort of "practice" as Richard mentioned with the prayer for the person with whom we were angry--that is, while it might be without conviction at first--then possibly, "positive thinking" might even help those with clinical depression. I don't mean to sound trite--or that it would be quick. And I really have no idea--just seems to me...:-)

Blessings!

Cathy

Bob F., I do believe that there is healing power in positive thinking and that science will be able to reveal more and more about the connection. But what does a sick person do when the very thing that allows one to think positively is the thing that is damaged?

Brad, I have at least a rough idea of the kind of pain you are talking about. I remember the confusion, the lack of will, the feelings of suffocation. When was the last time your doctor changed your meds? Have you considered finding a different therapist? (I know that I am making a lot of assumptions.)

One thing that I do know is that depression clouds vision. It muddles everything -- including the ability to focus and see things clearly. I hope that you will feel comfortable talking about your illness here.

Pilar,

Rx for pain or .03 cent therapy. This comes from the same people who,"don't want to rent out space in one's head." This has worked for me, and literally countless others.

Pray for that person, regularly/daily, for two weeks. Ask that he may be given the gifts/joy/happiness, that you would treasure/love for yourself. Sometimes it's with clenched teeth, in the beginning. But when two weeks are up you will have gotten relief from pain/anger/hate/resentment. So you might give it a try, nothing to lose but your pain.

What ever, hope things work out for you. There is much support here, and probably around you. Use what you need.

Now so everyone can boo and hiss me!!!My Christmas cards are all mailed. And I have only two gifts left to pick out and mail.

So, I guess it's illegal to throw lawyers/carpet baggers/news people, into Florida swamps. It would make the alligators sick and/or create a Super Fund Site.

Namaste', merriment, laughter, and light

G'day Bob,

Without wishing to appear a smartie, if 'we manifest everything' then we must be manifesting our illnesses even if it's on a subconscious level. :)

Seriously though, if you'd suggested two years ago that on 'some level' I had created my experience of schizophrenia, I would have absolutely scoffed at such an idea. Nowadays, I'm very grateful for the opportunity to have navigated my way through such an experience. It sure forced me to look and dig deeper than a nice, safe, comfortable, normal existence would have. :)

But one has to say that at this stage there are relatively few who do navigate their way successfully through the labyrinth of psychosis, so it's not an easy one to get your head around. One thing's for sure, IF I had listened to the conventional wisdom I would never have got from where I was to where I am ...

As for the election, call it a draw and have a re-match. Whoever 'wins' it at this stage is inheriting a very dubious 'prize' anyway.

Namaste

Lennie--I am fairly close to Gainesville--ee me privately, if you want, and I can tell you more specifically...how funny :-)

Cathy

Is it just me or is everybody getting tired of the non-give and non-take of the election? The line in the sand keeps moving no matter what courts say.

This is a supreme example of mankind's ego and childish side running amuk - an example of mankind working at a very low level of awareness.

Na...Na...Na.Na...Na - my votes are more than your votes.

Namasté

Sorry for all the typos...

I remember once being able to close my eyes and drift off into this state where I would awaken and feel rested... Now, I am diaper-burp man ! Got this diaper thingy down to the point that no matter which direction the call comes from, I am up in my cape, drop in, change the burp and baby the diaper in about 2 minutes flat. Unless it becomes a half hour as I undo what it was I was supposed to do (and I would not change a bit of it for anything !).

Wow, is it really Sunday ? Has a whole week gone by ? Did anyone win the election ? Does anybody still care ? This is way better than caffeine.

Thanks to all for your greetings. I am so glad not to have made the top ten of posters (knowing my checkered past).

I wanted to say a quck word to Pilar. There is a lesson in all of this for both of you. As an observer doing a quick read (and someone who at one time lured another into an affair/visit from afar - a part of my past that was difficult to face), you are both responsible adults and that means responsible for your actions, reactions, anger, expectations, feelings and everything else.

I saw the earlier post from the lady wanting romance from her boyfriend and saw a few parallels to your situation. Both you and that lady seem to want more than either man is willing to provide and your relationship 'strategy' is not working. What neither of you seems ready to face is that the man is either scared or (gasp !) seduced, shut down and moved on. I am not sure what hurts most facing that 'truth' or never knowing what is the truth.

Everyone involved has sewn (or is it sown) seeds of karma and each is working it out in your own way. There are many possible lessons at work here. The trick is to see which one fits this situation for you.

The key is also to take responsibility and ask yourself, what have I not listened to in this message or ignored to get what I wanted ? What also has he done to get what he wanted ? No easy answers, just tough, hard work. When you can face those answers, no matter what they are, you have leasrned from this past, given yourself the tools to repair yourself and the freedom to make different choices in the future.

I agree with Tad James (of NLP fame) who says, relationship problems are a result of negative programming or unfulfilled strategies. We could talk all night about negative programming and its causes. When you boil it down to its barest essentials, you and you alone have the keys to your own happiness. They can never be found in the arms of another (although it sure can feel gooooooddddd). ;-)

Until you are happy with yourself, you cannot be happy with another. I think you know what I mean.

While backtracking along "memory lane" in the archives, I ran across this wonderful post:

-----------------------

On Saturday, September 5, 1998, Tom G. (photog03@sprynet.com)@199.174.148.136 said:

While watching Candid Camera last night, they did a gag where a store gave out no change. When a man was confronted with the fact that he wasn't going to get the 60 cents owed to him in change, he just accepted it and started walking away. When Peter Funt called him back and asked why he wasn't upset, he replied:

"I don't let people rent space in my head."

It struck me as somewhat profound at the time and are words I want to remember.

----------------------------

Tom, I couldn't agree with you more!

Cathy i am in gainesville,where are you?

PillarI hope your pain lets up soon,I can relate to a lot of what you are saying,and it sounds like your friend is afraid of being happy which I think comes from a conditioned past,which only he can answer and believe me I dont think you would really feel better hurting him so he can feel your pain I think he knows a lot about pain that is probably a lot of his recluse thing.Mind you these are only my thoughts coming from my conditioning as well,pain from the heart is a learned response,yes I do think we have the power to change or control them ,that does not always mean we do the so called right thing for everyone concerned, I hope I am not confusing you more .Only you can proceed and make your own decisions what ever they may be ,just know I can relate to your pain and I know it hurts really bad .

Geoff - I have heard our organs and bodies "remember" what it is like to be whole. Supposedly, when we get sick and our bodies are "out of balance", if we meditate on the particular area involved and ask it to remember and return to wholeness, we greatly assist (or cause) the healing process.

All I can say is the very few times I have been sick, I have tried the approach and have never been sick for long.

It brings up the whole question of do we intentionally manifest our illnesses and therefore our cures - I contend yes - we manifest sickness / wellness on a very cellular level.

Namasté

Pilar what you are going through is a very normal reaction to your situation I think. Spend however much time you need to feel what you genuinely feel and don't put energy in resisting your authentic feelings or beating yourself up for having them. It only makes them stronger.

I think you answered many of your own questions. You recognize that it is not healthy to keep the rage within you and this rage is a projection to this man that you can't let go. Letting go is easy really. Just do it. If you can't, then quietly examine what you are getting out of hanging on. Most of the time we hang on because of fear or ego or a sense of lack within ourselves. Once we truly recognize that we are sacrificing peace and love for a shadow gratification of fear it becomes much easier to let it go.

Recognize that you are truly loveable and that you are perfect and complete exactly the way you are. Your perception of lack is an illusion. If you can approach the situation from that place you will see things differently.

Best of luck to you.

Carol - Sorry on the tapes, everyone else E Mailed me and I did not pick up your post on being interested. My duplicating equipment is not hooked up as yet but when it is, I will see what is involved and we can take it from there.

Namasté

Pilar, I would go along with Carol's response to you.

There's just an outline of what's really going on with you in your description. I would suspect that it would be very hard for you to accept any feedback that was offered to you at this stage, with so few facts for others to go on.

It may not be comfortable for you to give more information to total strangers about your situation, your own contributions to the way things have developed, past experiences in similar relationships, etc. That might best be left to someone you can really confide in, and who knows you personally.

General answers such as "talk it over with a close friend" are about the best that can be offered from people here, in my opinion. If the sharing of some of the less personal aspects of your problem wouldn't be too painful, maybe more of us could give you something really useful.

I am sorry for your hurts and frustrations, and hope you will be comfortable giving more of a picture of what's going on with you. There are some very sensitive and caring people who visit here, and many have probably had experiences like yours that they worked through themselves or have helped their friends work through.

It's trite, but also true, that time has a way of healing things, and the time it takes you to discuss this problem, and to get responses from others, and to consider what those responses mean for you, will assist you in coming to correct answers for your own good.

Just know that you're not being ignored, and that there are feelings for your situation being shared by those who read here. Surely some of us can offer the words to help you.

~ Friday, November 17, 2000 ~

Q: How can someone discover their Dharma when they've repeatedly experienced the manifestation of what they "thought" would be an ideal vocation only to have been extremely disappointed each time?

A: The only reason we become disappointed is because we are attached to our idea of how something should be. We strive so hard to make our lives predictable, we soon become bored with it and when it isn't how we think it should be, we grow frustrated and disappointed. The solution is to embrace uncertainty. By all means have your desires but then let them go and surrender to whatever manifests. If you are willing to step into uncertainty at every moment, everything will always be fresh and alive and you will never feel disappointed again.

Deepak Chopra
www.chopra.com

~ Thursday, November 16, 2000 ~

Q: How can we free ourselves from emotional pain caused by things that happened in our past, for example during childhood?

A: The most important thing you can do is to forgive. If the pain was caused by another person, you need to forgive that person. If you feel responsible in some way then you need to forgive yourself. We can condemn an act but we should never condemn a person. Everyone, including you, is always doing the best he or she can from his or her current level of consciousness. Perhaps some wrong was done but now it's time to forgive. When you forgive, you make room in your heart for love and love is the greatest healer of all pains.

Deepak Chopra
www.chopra.com

dear Pilar, my heart goes out to you and i hope your pain subsides, soon. i would need so much more information than your post gives, to try to answer your questions, from my perspective. i did want to let you know that i recognize your pain and have felt the pain that disappointment can give. i'm glad you posted here and hope that you will continue to explore your feelings. others may respond, too, and if you would like to ask Deepak this question you can go to his website at www.chopra.com.

wow! 2nd place, kewl!

Praying for those who cause you PAIN.... I'm involved in a major challenge to change my perception about something that is causing me unbeleivable pain. Recently, became involved w/a special soul, 42 yr. old workaholic, recluse, Buddhist...a wonderful beautiful man. He courted me and came on strongly 2 months ago. But when I fly to NYC for 1 week and returned, no msgs, none to speak of. I called several times, and he returned the call only to say he was overwhelmingly busy...I'm furious and devastated, and feel totally used and abandoned. I cannot believe I have yet attracted another 'unavailable'.And he was honest. Yip, he told me up front...So, Now I am challenged to see him as a teacher to heal more stuff I need to heal...right? All I want to do now is 'eye for an eye' call block him, write him hate a letter, s--- his tires, I'm so furious and so hurt. He should know the pain I'm in!!He has no clue that this is how he operates his relationships, for that is why he is a recluse w/very few friends. Anyway, what can I do to change my perception? What can I do to not rage and project onto this man and clearly clearly let him GO, for this is not healthy whatsoever. It is not empowering for me as a woman. AT ALL!!! Thank you. Pilar

Hi all--

A belated Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrated--I've not checked in for the whole week--and just read 4 pages of posts! Yikes!

Congrats to Denis and family on the new arrival! What fun!

Lennie--I'm in North Ga. Are you in GA as well? Glad your day went fairly well--I hosted for 9, and thought that was a lot :-) 38 people??! Wow!

Have a good weekend one and all!

Cathy

Dick -- Amazing work! Thanks for those counts, and I recognize that my posting lately has been both prolific and verbose. I'm even happier that my name has been uttered by others than myself that often.

I did call attention to Silvia's "Yahtzee" of 55555 as it happened, and I deliberately refrained from posting that specific post so someone else could have the distinction. I can repost her post and my response to it, if needed, to show that.

I have in the past been intimidated by others calling attention to the quantity of my posts, and have even left the forum whan that got to be an issue. Likewise with my calling attention to post counts and referring to other trivia. I will avoid that reaction this time, as long as it doesn't become a big issue for others.

However, I would point out to you, Dick, that a former poster of renown here, Cool Font Phooey, who also preferred anonymity, also liked to engage in the counts of words and posts, and to make that a point of some unknown value. It never was quite plain what the point was. He (or she) also enjoyed using "hehe" as a tagline. Another favorite expression was "bite me."

I have spent a large part of the past few days reviewing the archives, primarily to find when people posted for the first time here. There are still quite a few whose first post is still on my list to find. In that search, I located (back in Jul/98) where I was harsh and nasty to CFP and for some time he didn't post after that. He later returned, but then again vanished. In all honesty, I miss CFP, since his observations of little flaws always served to restore some balance, even if it was annoying to some. His personal views never were all that obvious, since most of what he had to say was in calling attention to other people's weaknesses or lack of consistency.

But the little exercise you just went through is so like his work that I am more than a little curious if you and CFP are not one and the same. If you are, welcome back! If not, just know that he was a hard act to follow, but you're doing quite well at restoring the balance CFP did.

Again, if you're not CFP, you might wish to look back to when he was active and appropriate the distinctive purplish font he always used. It could add to your mystique even more. Please don't lose your ability to contribute some thought-provoking links and side-splitting comments. They jazz this forum up immensely.

Consider me a fan of Dick Skep.

Actually, I remember reading somewhere that if we did have to direct all of those processes consciously nono of us could sustain the level of concentration that would be required on an ongoing basis.

Makes you wonder ...

(In my darker days, I used to wonder what the 'suicide' rate would be if one could consciously choose to stop one's heart from beating :)