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Hi Cathy! The state of mind is the important thing, not the word itself. Mindless repetitions are without use I believe.

Meditation can be used to calm or "empty" the mind. Because our inner dialogue likes to chatter, mantra's can be useful also to empty the mind to just the point of one word. It is extremely difficult to keep the mind completely quiet. The mind will still wander but witness it doing so nonjudgementally, and then carefully guide it back to the mantra and the "essence" of the mantra.

You can meditate with the mantra outloud or internally. I would think outloud is more "Yang" or "Jemal" (projective) and internally is more "Yin" or "Jelal" (receptive).

I just read an interesting section from Pema Chodron's book "When things fall apart" with regards to meditation. It says "We don't sit in meditation to become good meditators. We sit in meditation so that we will be more awake in our lives."

If we recognize states within ourselves during meditation, we can access these states during the time outside of meditation.

I hope some of these thoughts may resonate with you Cathy. Namaste'

still playing, i see! :) Larry, huh? ;)

good question, Pegs, heh!

Al?

hi Andrew and welcome! i loved Way of the Wizard, too. it is one of my favorite books, by Deepak. thanks for sharing and if you would like to go to Deepak's website it is www.chopra.com. Namasté

Loved the two videos way of the wizard and 7 spiritual laws - had bought 7 siritual laws (book) a few months ago

One of my brother's name is Larry! How cool...God is my brother! Which makes me God's kid sister--not bad :-)

Words are indeed interesting--I'd never heard the Maranatha breakdown--it does bring to mind a question about mantras. How does one "use" a mantra? Is it the repetition solely, or the state of mind when the repetition is used? Is the word choice more significant than what meaning the word holds for the chanter? Does it need to be aloud or is silent any good? Thanks in advance for the info!

Cathy

Break on through to the other side, Al...

I wonder how she likes being stuck with a guy's name.

M-R M-O-J-O R-I-S-I-N
J-I-M M-O-R-R-I-S-O-N

Coincidence? I think not.

Thank you Geoff. I to have been trying spread the "Truth", that God's true name is Larry. I have had some mixed reactions.

It is thought that some of the earlier languages have words that are more psychically charged that are particular to the meaning and intention of the word. The different consonent sounds have different effects or impressions on a person and the different usage of vowels effect different chakras. Alleluia has a profound effect on an individual (or individuals) when sung. It moves up to higher and higher chakras.

Some say that the word "Maranatha" is a mantra that illustrates the road to enlightenment. Ma(Me)Ra(God)Na (Death to the old self) Tha (Eternal Life found through awareness or birth of the new Self).

Words never cease to amaze me. They are so powerful. Tools for attention and intention; communication and synchronization. "In the beginning, there was the word.."

Free and Easy: A Spontaneous Song

by Venerable Lama Gendun Rinpoche

Happiness cannot be found
through great effort or willpower
but is already present,
in open relaxation and letting go.

Don't strain yourself,
there is nothing to do or undo.
Whatever momentarily arises in the body-mind
has no real importance at all,
has little reality whatsoever.
Why identify with,
and become attached to it,
passing judgement on it and ourselves?

Far better to simply
let the entire game happen on its own,
springing up and falling back like waves -
without ever changing or manipulating anything -
and notice how everything vanishes and
reappears, magically, again and again,
time without end.

Only our searching for happiness
prevents us from seeing it,
It's like a vivid rainbow which you pursue without ever catching,
or a dog chasing its own tail.
Although peace and happiness do not exist
as an actual thing or place,
it is always available
and accompanies you every instant.

Don't believe in the reality
of good and bad experiences;
they are like today's ephemeral weather,
like rainbows in the sky.

Wanting to grasp the ungraspable,
you exhaust yourself in vain.
As soon as you open and relax this tight fist of grasping,
infinite space is there - open, inviting, and comfortable.

Make use of this spaciousness,
this freedom and natural ease,
Don't search any further.
Don't go into the tangled jungle
looking for the great awakened elephant,
who is already resting quietly at home
in front of your own hearth.
Nothing to do or undo.
nothing to force,
nothing to want,
and nothing missing -

Emaho! Marvelous!
Everything happens by itself.

- Translated at Dakpo Kagyu Ling in Dordogne, France
From Awakening the Buddha within

What's in a name? Actually, God's first name is Larry. I know because I saw it on a TV program once.

Carol and Peggy, it's interesting, this business of what's in the name of God. Islam says that God has 99 names, the merciful, the giving and the all the rest but his first all encompassing name is Allah. There are Islamic defenders, such as Islamic cleric Didat of South Africa, who claims that since God's first language is Arabic, 'Allah' is his rightful name. He justifies it by using the Judeo/Christian bible as a source. Didat says that when the angels sing "Alleluia" this is a corruption of Allahu Akbar (God is Great) or Allah. I disagree of course.

You have to remember that in Hebrew, a semitic language that includes the Arabic language, God is named as, Yaweh, Jehova and later Aramaic times Eloi. Comparing the sounds of the name 'Eloi' with 'Allah' one cannot help but notice the similarity of root sound.

I also find it interesting to look at the Romanian word for God, Zeu; the Latin word for God, Deus; and who was the big chief god in Greek mythology? Zeus.

Thought I'd share that.

Question:
Do you find it difficult staying on track with your life lessons when many people/groupies pay too much homage to you? Does the earthly ego cloud the issues at times?

Answer:
Not really, I lead a relatively normal life in which my personality is based on my relationship with my wife and family. I recognize that at many speaking engagements some individuals focus their appreciation on me personally, rather than the knowledge itself. For my part I am grateful for the knowledge I have received and feel honored to share it. I don’t confuse my personality or ego with the knowledge itself. I interpret the enthusiasm and praise directed at me as appreciation for the knowledge and joy accompanying their own awakening.

Love,
Deepak

Kitty, i noticed you were hesitant to bring the information concerning Deepak's father, here. i just wanted to say that i appreciate that you did and thank you again.

The messenger of death enters . . .
And all business stops

good question, Ee, wonder if anyone ever tried to play with their name for God, like that before? i guess so, just haven't heard it before.

And an identity...

At least Deepak has a sense of play.

Or it be DOG spelled backwards!

Sorry, Peggy, but I couldn't pass that one up. :)

I'll have to agree with Eyore on this one. To me it cheapens the concept to look for what the three letters might stand for. I wonder what the foreign language translations of How to Know God handle the problem. Does he come up with new descriptions of what God is as Eyore has suggested?

Al, this isn't to say that God, as we know her, doesn't generate, organize and deliver our universe. But if the concept of "God" had been spelled J-A-M, then Chopra would have come up with other defining words. Aren't the descriptions more important than what letters they begin with?

Such a silly approach to language leaves the door wide open for someone to come along and say that GOD actually stands for "Good Old Dogma" or some such.

Who generates, delivers and organizes YOUR universe? If it isn't God, who is it?

My condolences to Chopra.

Isn't that clever?... God becomes Generation Organisation Delivery. Wow. That's really wow man... What wisdom spews forth... Makes one wonder if God's first language is English. Eloi, Allah, Jehova, Deus, Dios, Gott, Dievs, Zeu, Gud, Bog...- I wonder what clever Chopra could come up with to fit those names of God?

Generation Organization Delivery

Q: Lately, I have been in some fascinating discussions on the topic What is God? Since Dr. Chopra was bold enough to name his book "How to Know God," can he give a brief description of his definition of God?

Deepak Chopra: Yes. Look at the spelling of God: G stands for Generation; O stands for Organization; and D stands for Delivery. Therefore, GOD is the Generator, the Organizer, and the Deliverer of the Universe. God is the infinite, unbounded, eternal intelligence that constantly projects itself as the universe through the creation of space, time, matter, and infinite energy. But God is also infinite love, infinite compassion, infinite joy. God is also the source of the progressive expansion of happiness, God is the source of meaning and purpose in life, God is the source of that which is considered a miracle, God is the fulfillment of our deepest desire, and God is the source of the abolishment of all fears, including the fear of death.
Deepak Chopra Chat Transcript

Question. I saw Deepak Chopra on Larry King last year. He said that GOD is the Generator, the Organizer and, unfortunately, I did not hear what the D stands for. Can anyone tell me? Thank you.

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thank you kitty. my love and prayers to dr. chopra and his family namaste'

Thank you Kitty for sharing that here.

thank you, Kitty, very much. my support and prayers are extended to Deepak's family, for their loss.....

Namasté

I changed my mind. I am posting one of the attachments here. Whatever you think, please hold this wonderful man with respect. This is from Deepak's brother, Sanjiv Chopra:

"The most inspirational hero in my life is my father. He is the embodiment of compassion, an amazingly astute clinician and a fabulous teacher of medicine and life.

"I was born in Pune, India, and because my father, a physician was assigned to military hospitals we would move to a different part of India every three years. My dad was like a living saint to me as a child. He still is, in my opinion, one of the greatest guys around. One vivid memory of how much he meant to others occurred when I was eight years of age. We had just moved to a new city, and soon word spread that this incredible physician had arrived. So people started coming in droves to our home, where Dad had added on a small clinic. The ill would come on foot, by rickshaw, train, or even in chauffeur-driven Mercedes cars. And I could always see and feel the incredible gratitude they felt for my dad's care. My mother would graciously offer tea and food and if they were poor she'd give them money for their bus fare and dad wouldn't charge them a fee. My mother is the most generous person I've ever known.

Seeing that kind of sacrifice and devotion for the caring of others from my parents was a very powerful and moving experience for me as a child. When it was time to move from that town three years later, we went to the train station to depart and I was stunned to see at least a thousand people gathered to see us off. Many of the well-wishers had tears streaming down their cheeks, because Dr. Chopra, their savior, was leaving town. So that was a very powerful experience for me, and I remember that scene vividly and thinking to myself, "This is what I want to be when I grow up: a doctor like my father."

Hi everyone, I just received this from the Chopra Center

"This past Saturday Deepak's father, Krishan Chopra, passed away. ...

We are sending our love, support, and prayers to Deepak, Rita and the entire Chopra family.

Namaste,

The Chopra Center Staff "

There were some attachments from Deepak sent to the instructors and the Namaste list - "friends". I don't feel this is the place right now to post them, but if anyone would like me to send them privately, email me. Just thought some of you would want to know.

Namaste,
Kitty

Morning all

Anyone who derived any benefit or food for thought from my ramblings is quite welcome to it.

Chris, you're so right about opinions being fluff and yet it does take a conscious effort to withdraw the emotional investment we have put into them. Through meditation, I have thoroughly probed & investigated many of my long-held opinions and found they have no basis whatsoever. So I gently let them go.

Booyah, there is a vast difference between repressed emotions and transformed emotions. An emotion is just energy. I have personally felt that energy transform from anger and bitterness into comapssion and love. You may scoff at this and say I'm crazy or kidding myself. That's cool. I would have said the same thing myself not two years ago. I figured I'd be the very last soul on this planet who'd be saying the 'pretty thoughts' I am now.

On the subject of 'pretty thoughts', the only way anything in this world can fundamentally change is if individuals do make the conscious decision to choose forgiveness-gratitude-comapssion-love over bitterness-blame-cynicism-sarcasm. Nobody's going to twist your arm. You're endowed with free-will to fill your head with whatever you choose. The KEY question to ask is 'Is this doing me any good?' and nobody can answer that for you.

Namaste.

Cathy, you must have read my mind. On the subject of discussion, the following popped into my head this morning - "As soon as a discussion becomes personal or abusive or derogatory then it ceases to be a 'discussion' and it has moved into the area of interpersonal ego warfare and both parties are being damaged as long as they remain in this territory."

Most of us find it almost impossible to simply disagree. We generally attach emotional energy to the disagreement. "I disagree with you." doesn't generate conflict. However, "I disagree with you and anybody who thinks like you must be an imbecile." has a totally different flavour to it. :)

Namaste.

Great questions Cathy! You sure know how to cut right to the meat of the matter. Here is my take on the passion, zest, non judgment and non attachment question.

It really does seem like a paradox, but I believe the less judgment and attachment to outcome, the more passion and zest is possible. The secret comes from the fact that the passion and zest don't come from what ever it is that we are doing or achieving. Passion and zest come from being who we really are and flowing with the universe instead of resisting what IS about ourselves and the world. When we are passionate about something, without conscious effort energy is drawn towards it. When we become passionate about a specific end result instead of being passionate just participating in the game of life, energy is drawn away from what it is we are really passionate about in the first place. Does this make any sense?

How does one have passion and zest for life and practice nonjudgment and nonattachment? Why is it that judgment is connected to passion at all? Sure we can be passionate about our judgments, but does that lead to passion and zest for life? Maybe we should be attached to life then… then again, maybe not. Look at people with terminal diseases and how they often learn to love and be passionate about life because they have lost their attachment to it. It's a funny paradox but it works. Does this mean that we should just sit back and do nothing? Absolutely not! Get into the game, but realize that the game is played best when we are in the moment and not bogged down with attachments and judgments. When we are full of judgments we fail to see opportunities that are popping up all the time and when we are attached to things that don't happened we get stuck. By not being attached to an outcome we are free to move forward the next moment having learned one way not to achieve our intentions.

Indifference is making a choice to not participate in the game of life. It is not necessarily the same thing as nonjudgment and nonattachment. Indifference is saying, "I don't care what happens." Nonjudgment and nonattachment is saying, "I will do what every I feel driven to do to make what ever difference I can, but I trust the Universe enough to let go of MY attachment to the outcomes." The first is apathy, the second is love and trust. The first is based on fear, the second is jumping into life full blast with an intention for an outcome but without attachment to it.

Anyway, these are just some ramblings on this pretty difficult topic. I look forward to reading other people's take on it.

Peace and light…

Cathy, something that you said reminded me of this poem by Robert Frost:

"Fire and Ice

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To know that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice."

From Harper's Magazine, December 1920

"I think the glass is the wrong size."

-- George Carlin

Are all Spiritualists pessimists - is the glass always half empty? If so, think I will be an atheist!!

While you think pretty thoughts and post in pretty colors, you will see passion defined as the U.S. faces four years of the new administration's racism and misogyny. Those who don't want to step into the past, but have concern for the good of all people globally, will show you passion.

I meant to add the flip side of the coin of passion--indifference. What do you see as the difference between indifference and nonjudgment, nonattachment. I know what I think about these questions I am asking (which in a nutshell is balance and circumstantial)...but am always interested in what others know.

There was a song once that I liked...but it's theme was one that is heard fairly often on TV shows etc...that of involvement giving meaning to life, better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all etc...the song was something about a fire and where to be in relation to it ;-) I just remember the message being what I said above--that one might get hurt or burned if close but that was better than living on the fringes...that the getting closer to the fire was likened to getting closer to the passion and feeling that make life exciting and meaningful....

Catchya later! Cathy

Hi all--A question comes to mind from the responses to Geoff's post. The talk about opinions and defending them and what's right for an individual etc...what do you all think is the "right" amount of discussion to have on any given topic? In other words, do you think it wise to voice a dissenting (or concurring) opinion 1)never--good luck there, right Chris? :-) 2)only in cases of extreme circumstances (like the crowd saying "kill him!" and your voicing opposition to that idea) or 3)depends on individual circumstances?

This forum has been good practice for me in learning to not be attached to the outcome of discussions...I do still find value in having discussion and in trying to share my views and hearing other perspectives ...I think I have learned when a discussion is not "going anywhere" and when it's time to quit, from this place.

So while I enjoyed Geoff's post and was nodding my head as I read it, it occurred to me that perhaps discussion was getting a bad rap? :-) Or maybe only the heatedness with which we pursue it? Which brings to mind another question that I've wondered about from time to time...how do you all define passion? When I think of someone hotly debating an issue--sometimes it's all ego, but sometimes it seems to come from a passionate concern about what's being discussed. Which I imagine boils down to one's ego's ideas most times...but do you see what I'm getting at? How does one have passion and zest for life and practice nonjudgment and non attachment...I feel some answers bubbling up from within...but would like to hear your ideas...

Love, Cathy

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