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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:01:29 -0500
From: T J S
Yoth-Tlaggon --at the Crimson Spring,
hour of the Amorphous Reflection.
>Ideally I could do with background info on
>location of Tcho
Tcho tribes, migratory history, preferred gods to
>worship etc.
The ideal source is their first appearance, in "Lair of the Star-Spawn," by Derleth & Schorer.
But perhaps more accessible sources are HPL's revision tale "Out of the Aeons," in THE HORROR IN THE MUSEUM AND OTHER REVISIONS, S. T. Joshi, ed., Sauk City, WI: Arkham House, 1989, and "Dope War of the Black Tong," by Robert M. Price in THE DISCIPLES OF CTHULHU, Second Edition, Edward P. Berglund, ed., Oakland, CA: Chaosium, Inc., 1996.
As far as I know, their range was limited to the central Asian plateaus of Leng and Tsang, and the Burmese plateau of Sung; some southeast Asian islands. Never heard of any in Africa. They primarily worship Lloigor (the god), Zhar, and Chaugnar Faugn.
From: Olaughing
> I'm about to use a group of Tcho Tcho in a forthcoming gaming session,
as =
> a despised tribe of cannibals in the Congo . Aside from a few
supporting =
> appearances in Chaosium scenarios there is very little
info available on =
> Tcho Tchos. Ideally I could do with background
info on location of Tcho =
> Tcho tribes, migratory history, preferred
gods to worship etc. Would =
> anyone care to share their own experiences
of using Tcho Tchos in a =
> scenario? Any help would be appreciated.
Hm, he said, opening the Dread Tome of..., well the Encyclopedia Cthuliana, actually.
Hm... Found just about anywhere that's convenient for a scenario--Tibet, Malaysia, and the Andaman Islands.
They are pretty indifferent as to who they worship, although Atlach Nacha, Changnar Faughn, and Hastur, and Shubby-Baby. Once, along ago, their ancestors lived in the Pyrenees, of all places. That about sums it up, except that they're small, dirty, and have odious habits common to anyone who worships the Great Old Ones for more than a generation...
From: Peter Devlin
Regards the mysterious Tcho Tchos:
>Hm, he said, opening the Dread Tome of..., well the Encyclopedia
SNIP
>worships the Great Old Ones for more than a generation...
I've got the Andamans and New York / Tibet scenarios from Chaosium. I have the background bit about being originally from the Pyrenees area but migrating around the globe. Major deity Chaugnar Faugn I will use in Africa. I've also read the rather warped Vietnam / Montagnard case history on the Delta Green web page, I can recommend it. I've also read 'Black Man With A Horn' which I presume is the Malaysian reference.
I'm just intrigued because the Tcho Tchos seem rarer in published material than, say, the Deep Ones or the MiGo. In my book that makes them ideal for exploitation in an RPG context. My PCs have come across a Tcho Tcho killer in a circus / fairground (the classic scenario 'Dark Carnival') but that is the extent of their experience.
I've heard of one Keeper who set up a Tcho Tcho burger joint in 1990's London but that seems a little too happy-smiley-jokey for me.
Now, Tcho Tchos as a separate race of humans, tainted by the Mythos way back when Lucy the original homo-eructus-sapiens was getting it together in the frontal lobe department seems to make sense. Possibly have them as one of those hominid species that apparently died out as our species took over. Any anthropologists or evolutionary biologists out there who might make a suggestion?
Persume the Tcho Tcho ancestors made a deal with the Mythos forces. Their evolutionary development may have retarded but they gained plenty in sorcerous knowledge and many allied themselves with Chaugnar Faugn and his brothers in the Pyrenees. As mankind spread the Tcho Tchos moved to hidden places from where they could venture forth to prey on humanity whilst defending their territory.
So, elephant god, spider god, fertility goddess, canibalism, torture etc. Tcho Tchos might also have Dreamland connections a la 'Spawn of Azathoth'. Do they use dream drugs? Are they parasitically dependent upon mankind for their technology, their children? Why doesn't their race die, they never seem to have enough members in the tribe to keep the gene pool active? What relations do they have with ghouls, deep ones etc.
(I think I'll cross-post this to DG as well.)
Given their unseen existence and Mythos connections, a few Tcho Tcho sorcerors may be as powerful as guys like Carl Stanford. Anyone read the 'Keeper of The Secrets' stories by Philip Jose Farmer? They feature a group of immortals who include a wizened dwarf who has survived since man's earliest days in Africa. Now that has potential for a CoC bad guy!
Enough for now. Thoughts, responses most appreciated.
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 99 09:43:28 PDT
From: Chaz Engan
>> Enough for now. Thoughts, responses most appreciated.
Good stuff, Peter!
For a New World echo, you might look up the Carkers, featured in a wonderful short story by the name of "They Bite." I cannot recall the author's name -- someone help -- it's out there on the net, I know. Anyone?
They're not Tcho-Tchos, but they're very neat and scary.
From: T J S
Temple of Rhalu, the moon
goddess, at the hour of
the blood-sacrifice, in
the last cycle of Mu.
An interesting note on these little nasties -
"There are not many of them," Fo-Lan said, "but they are powerful in there own way. Yet there are curious lapses in their intelligence. Yesterday, for instance, after spying your party from the top of this tower, and after going out and annihilating it, they returned with two of their number dead. They had been shot. The Tcho-Tcho people could not believe them dead, since it is impossible for them to conceive of such a weapon as a gun. At base, they are very simple people. Yet they are inherently malevolent, for they know that they are working for the destruction of all that is good in the world."
- - August Derleth & Mark Schorer, from "Lair of the Star-Spawn"
From: "David Farnell"
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:15:21 +0900
> I've also read the rather warped Vietnam / Montagnard case history
>on the Delta Green web page, I can recommend it.
Why, thank you!
As Davide Mana pointed out on the DG List, anyone interested in the Tcho-tcho should check out the archived Tcho-tcho thread on the Ice Cave:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm
That started with an innocent question like yours, but ballooned out big-time into a very delightful romp, full of nasty ideas. It also influenced / was influenced by the above "case history," which was being written at the time.
> Now, Tcho Tchos as a separate race of humans, tainted by the
>Mythos way back when Lucy the original homo-eructus-sapiens was
>getting it together in the frontal lobe department seems to make
>sense. Possibly have them as one of those hominid species that
>apparently died out as our species took over. Any anthropologists
or
>evolutionary biologists out there who might make a suggestion?
I'm not an anthro, but I wouldn't put the seperation quite so far back. I would make it near-historical so you can put references to it--in progress--in such things as The Book of Eibon and the like. Good idea on their being a separate race, though.
> Persume the Tcho Tcho ancestors made a deal with the Mythos
>forces. Their evolutionary development may have retarded but they
>gained plenty in sorcerous knowledge and many allied themselves
>with Chaugnar Faugn and his brothers in the Pyrenees.
I wouldn't say their evolution was retarded--it may have been sped up. Remember that evolution is merely change over time in response to environment (I know, some biology-type is gonna put the smack-down on me for that oversimplification, but so be it--hey, I'm a lit major). Don't make the mistake of thinking we're some sort of pinnacle of creation, now, or that our particular brand of intelligence is better than the blind, idiot chaos at the heart of the universe. Evolution isn't up or down, really, it just is--the rate can be fast or slow, though, and their association with nasty aliens surely sped up the Tcho-tcho's rate of change.
From: Daniel M Harms
> I'm not an anthro, but I wouldn't put the seperation quite so far
back. I
> would make it near-historical so you can put references to
it--in
> progress--in such things as The Book of Eibon and the like.
Good idea on
> their being a separate race, though.
I'm an anthro, so I'll try. Generally, I doubt you could make a case for Tcho-tchos being descended from an earlier hominid species. Having to explain just how the Tcho-tchos ended up almost entirely like Homo sapiens after millions of years would be something of a challenge. The European point of origin might suggest Homo erectus or Neanderthal, but both of these are so far from known Tcho-tcho morphology that it's probably best to make them a more modern arrival.
Besides, what's more fun - to find that the Tcho-tchos descended from another type of hominid, or that they have some amphibian-like DNA from their Miri Nigri inheritance?
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:06:37 +0200
From near the Pyrinees (what a fancy name for the Pirineos , indeed) , I can help you to walk in the madness highway...
In Spain (what a surprise!) , are the rest of the common ancestor of Neanderthal and Cromamagnon versions of the Human being Project. It's called "Homo Antecessor" , and , for i can read of the Bermudez team , they were very pretty well socialized , in the way they developed the teenage (i think this woul be a good translation for "Adolescencia"). For the ones that can read spanish , there are a good article en www.elpais.es about the theme (fut0414d.htm) The heading is :
EVOLUCIÓN EN ATAPUERCA
Nuevos datos sobre la biología de 'Homo antecessor'
J.M.BERMÚDEZ DE CASTRO / ANTONIO ROSAS ( 14-04-99)
Are the Tcho-Tcho the living vestiges of the Homo Antecessor?...
Hope this help in messing minds...
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:00:35 -0400
From: Steven Kaye
>For a New World echo, you might look up the Carkers, featured
in
>a wonderful short story by the name of "They Bite." I
cannot
>recall the author's name -- someone help -- it's out there
on
>the net, I know. Anyone?
The author was Anthony Boucher - a wonderfully creepy story.
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:58:37 -0400
From: Steven Kaye
>I'm just intrigued because the Tcho Tchos seem rarer in published
material
>than, say, the Deep Ones or the MiGo. In my book that makes
them ideal for
>exploitation in an RPG context. My PCs have come across
a Tcho Tcho killer
>in a circus / fairground (the classic scenario
'Dark Carnival') but that
>is the extent of their experience.
I've hypothesized that the Tcho-Tcho originally came from Atlantis, and kept moving west (mind you, Lin Carter had them coming out of the Dreamlands, from the city of Sarkomand, and depending how literally you take the "Lair of the Star-Spawn" passage about them being seeded you could make them hell-plant-human hybrids). Stayed for a while in the Andamans (check out http://www.andaman.org for some fun ideas), sailed to Burma, only 200 miles away. One thing that gets overlooked in the Chaosium scenarios is that Tcho-Tcho ain't dumb dwarves with breechclouts. "Lair" has them building stone cities, constructing ships resembling Roman galleys, wielding metal weapons (I'm assuming their swords are metal - there's a reference to them being "bright" IIRC).
Different Tcho-Tcho peoples have different characteristics (thus, the Tibetans are still the hairless dwarves - many of the Southeast Asian ones look much more like normal people, though the Malaysians go in for filing of teeth), and I've toyed with the idea of making some of them not affected by Elder Signs. In modern times (particularly after the destruction of Alaozar), many of them have moved to the West, where they're quite active in shipping and construction work (living in hilly terrain makes for people without fear of heights, and they're strong for their size).
>Persume the Tcho Tcho ancestors made a deal with the Mythos forces.
Their
>evolutionary development may have retarded but they gained plenty
in
>sorcerous knowledge and many allied themselves with Chaugnar Faugn
and his
>brothers in the Pyrenees. As mankind spread the Tcho Tchos
moved to hidden
>places from where they could venture forth to prey
on humanity whilst
>defending their territory.
Be aware that the whole Chaugnar Faugn connection is a hypothesis from a Chaosium module - you don't have to use it if you don't want.
>So, elephant god, spider god, fertility goddess, canibalism, torture
etc.
>Tcho Tchos might also have Dreamland connections a la 'Spawn
of Azathoth'.
>Do they use dream drugs? Are they parasitically dependent
upon mankind for
>their technology, their children? Why doesn't their
race die, they never
>seem to have enough members in the tribe to keep
the gene pool active?
>What relations do they have with ghouls, deep
ones etc.
I have the Tcho-Tcho as extremely knowledgeable about the Dreamlands, frequently switching between the two realms (which explains how Tcho-Tcho keep popping up after someone exterminates the lot of them). I also have their main gods as Hastur (in the King of Yellow guise - the torture bit comes from a HELLRAISER-style attitude towards pleasure and pain) and Shub-Niggurath ("Black Man with a Horn" refers to their skill in raising animals and crops).
Check the DG list archives - there was a recent discussion about Tcho-Tcho, actually.
>Given their unseen existence and Mythos connections, a few Tcho
Tcho
>sorcerors may be as powerful as guys like Carl Stanford. Anyone
read the
>'Keeper of The Secrets' stories by Philip Jose Farmer? They
feature a
>group of immortals who include a wizened dwarf who has survived
since
>man's earliest days in Africa. Now that has potential for a
CoC bad guy!
Was this part of his Doc Caliban stuff?
From: "David Farnell"
> Different Tcho-Tcho peoples have different characteristics (thus,
the
> Tibetans are still the hairless dwarves - many of the Southeast
Asian ones
> look much more like normal people, though the Malaysians
go in for filing
> of teeth), and I've toyed with the idea of making
some of them not affected
> by Elder Signs.
I wouldn't make any of them affected by Elder Signs, except perhaps the most powerful, who'd gone through Shub-Niggurath rebirth rituals or taken the Unspeakable Oath or something. Making too many things affected by the Elder Sign gets cheesy fast, like crosses vs. vampires. Anyway, modern Tcho-tcho could easily be carrying assault rifles--bullets don't care about Elder Signs. Even 20s Tcho-tchos will have blowguns, crossbows, perhaps rifles.
> I have the Tcho-Tcho as extremely knowledgeable about the
Dreamlands,
> frequently switching between the two realms (which explains
how Tcho-Tcho
> keep popping up after someone exterminates the lot
of them).
Same here. Remember the link between Tcho-tchos and Men of Leng. I'm going with the idea that they are one-and-the-same--the Men of Leng are the Tcho-tcho dream-forms. Many, maybe most, Tcho-tcho can slide back and forth very easily. (See that Ice Cave info for bizarre ideas about Tcho-tcho women.)
> I also have
> their main gods as Hastur (in the King of Yellow
guise - the torture bit
> comes from a HELLRAISER-style attitude towards
pleasure and pain) and
> Shub-Niggurath ("Black Man with a Horn" refers
to their skill in raising
> animals and crops).
I see Tcho-tchos as a whole worshipping the Mythos pretty indiscriminately, but individual tribes specializing depending on who their shaman likes best. But, funny thing, all the Tcho-tchos I've used so far have been Hastur or Shub-Niggurath worshippers who fit your description almost exactly! ([shameless plug] See the story "Tiger" under "Case Histories" at the main Delta Green site: http://www.delta-green.com/ch_ADG.DF-0010.html)
> >Given their unseen existence and Mythos connections, a few Tcho
Tcho
> >sorcerers may be as powerful as guys like Carl Stanford.
I would say every large Tcho-tcho tribe has a very powerful shaman who'd be reaching Stanford levels of power. So what keeps them from taking over the world? Well, the time is not yet right, and also there's not nearly enough Tcho-tcho. And just like bullets don't care about Elder Signs, even the most powerful sorcerers can't keep a tribe of followers going for long against a modern army ("modern" includes all 3 major periods of CoC). After the tribe is decimated by bombs, machineguns, etc., the shaman might escape, but his power to rule is broken. So they have to be subtle.
Date: 19 Apr 99 14:34:20 +0100
From: Peter Devlin
Thanks to all concerned for the Tcho Tcho information. Davide, the Ice Cave is proving quite invaluable :-)
In summary, it seems that an African Tcho-Tcho tribe isn't too far-fetched an idea. Atla Nacha, Shub-Niggurath, Hastur, Chaugnar Faugn seem most appropriate for African Mythos connections. I think I shall fit in the Cult of The Bloody Tongue and The Faceless One quite easily too.
From: T J S
>In summary, it seems that an African Tcho-Tcho tribe isn't
too
>far-fetched an idea. Atla Nacha, Shub-Niggurath, Hastur, Chaugnar
>Faugn seem most appropriate for African Mythos connections.
I'm not sure what period of history you're going to be in, but a good Mythos story about colonial Africa, specifically Belgian Congo, is David Drake's "Than Curse The Darkness." He gives a good feel for the conditions of the time. The god he deals with is an avatar of Nyarlathotep known as Ahtu.
From: Steven Kaye
>I'm not sure what period of history you're going to be in, but a
good
>Mythos story about colonial Africa, specifically Belgian Congo,
is
>David Drake's "Than Curse The Darkness." He gives a good feel
for
>the conditions of the time. The god he deals with is an avatar
of
>Nyarlathotep known as Ahtu.
They're not his best stuff, but HPL's revision story "Medusa's Coil" has worship of Cthulhu and Tsathoggua in Africa, and "Winged Death" takes place in South Africa IIRC.
Toss in Lin Carter's "The Fishers from Outside" and some of Robert E. Howard's Solomon Kane in Africa stuff and you're good to go.
From: T J S
>They're not his best stuff, but HPL's revision story "Medusa's Coil"
has
>worship of Cthulhu and Tsathoggua in Africa, and "Winged Death"
takes place
>in South Africa IIRC.
True enough, but I was trying to come up with some useful references to the Congo.
And I am embarrassed that I neglected to mention HPL's "Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family."
>Toss in Lin Carter's "The Fishers from Outside" and some of Robert
E.
>Howard's Solomon Kane in Africa stuff and you're good to go.
I believe the relevant Solomon Kane tales would be his West African adventures, "The Moon of Skulls," and "The Hills of the Dead." Of course, these stories take place way back in the 16th Century, and contain none of the usual "Mythos" themes.
