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Horror! - It's the Naked Molerats
Again!...
and Then Some!
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:37:36 +0900
From: "David Farnell" <daf@iwa.att.ne.jp>
> And on yet another thread, speaking of the insularity of mountain
living; how
>about them Basque, huh? Language unrelated to any other
European tongue, RH
>negative blood type prevalence, distinctive bone
structure (see Trevanian's
>"Shibumi"). A case can be made that they
are descended from the original
>inhabitants of Europe. Native Europeans.
Some speculate that they are the last
>of the Neanderthals.
Everything but that last bit is right. I heard the Neanderthal theory myself before, but it's bogus, of course--too bad, as it'd be nice to have a population of another human species about. Very HPLish. I remember in linguistics class hearing the refutation of another theory, that the Basque language developed from Neanderthal language, but the much more likely explanation is that the Basques are, indeed, remnants of a pre-Indo-European population, which is why their language isn't related to other Euro languages. (Also, there's a big argument now about whether the Neanderthals could even speak.) In fact, if I remember right, Basque is one of those languages that's a family unto itself. The Neanderthal thing is probably just the neighbors bad-mouthing each other.
Such a thing is a bit surprising, but not really so rare--there are several
1-language families or very restricted families all over the place, especially the Americas and Asia, in isolated places. Finnish was also mentioned on this thread--oddly, it's part of the Finno-Urgaic Family, which includes Mongolian (and maybe Tibetan, can't remember). Welsh was also mentioned, but it's part of the Indo-European family by way of the Celtic sub-family, for all it's brain-twisting spelling (hey, I'm part Welsh, and I tried to learn it one semester--ouch!).
> I can see them as depraved cultists with secret caves worshipping
a
>featureless, bulbous, pendulous stone "Venus" (a mask of
Shub-Niggurath?). I
>can also see them as valued mountain guerilla
friendlies.
Sure, both. Maybe also a connection with the BoYS--you can argue they're genetically closer to the "original" humans of K'n Yan (sp?).
Anyway, I've been doing a lot with Tcho-tchos lately (you know, hanging out with them, drinking fermented gaur milk, practical jokes: "Hey, SupahDave, want a hambahgah?" "Sure, OK...heyyyy, this ain't beef. All right, who is this?!")--no, I mean using them in games. Now, I've come across 2 main theories in the past: One, they are a tribe from southeast Asia (although they seem to be anywhere an author wants them to be). Two, they can develop all over the world, as a natural side effect of worshipping the GOO--do it long enough, and your people turn into a Tcho-tcho tribe.
So I just want to get some ideas of how people see the Tcho-tcho, and how they use them in a game. One thing I have to fight hard against is letting them turn into a racist stereotype of Asians from 1940s movies--it's just so easy for it to slide into all that, and it's really glaring as half my players are Asian--it just stands out more than it would in Texas.
Anyway, just as an example of the kind of ideas I'd like to generate:
In one game, the players went, in the course of their investigation, to check out some immigrant Cambodians in a Texas suburb. They found the windows boarded up, no ventilation, even though it was the middle of summer (which means the temperature inside would have to be well over 100F, about 40C). They knocked, tried to get the Tcho-tcho guy who came to the door to let them in. After making a phone call to the Villain (tm), he let them in in order to kill them. Big sweaty fight ensued, lots of butcher knives and clubs and such, before the cop finally managed to get out his gun and kill a couple of them. All men, BTW. When they went in the back to check, they were charged by a gargantuan woman, weighing in at about 1 ton, who completely flattened the cop (he survived, but he was in the hospital for weeks). She was kind of the queen breeder--only one female for every ten males or so.
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:52:39 -0500
From: Daniel Harms
>I remember in
>linguistics class hearing the refutation of another
theory, that the
Basque
>language developed from Neanderthal language, but the much
more likely
>explanation is that the Basques are, indeed, remnants
of a pre-Indo-
>European population, which is why their language isn't
related
to other
>Euro languages.
Then again, a couple of weeks ago in my linguistics class, I heard what seems to be the latest theory: isolates such as Basque and Zuni are not necessarily remnants of hideously old tongues, but creoles made up of several surrounding languages. It may be controversial; I couldn't tell from the brief discussion.
Originally from Tibet (or the Plains of Leng), most commonly from Southeast Asia. Insular, don't marry outside the tribe. Just as Special Forces came to work with the Montagnards, the far-ranging, border crossing black ops types began to work with Tcho-tcho during the Vietnam War. Some began to learn from them. Most notably, a Col. Kurtz. The mysterious saga of Kurtz is ambiguously documented, but has a certain distinct bouquet. There are indications of a DG directed Arclight callsigned 'Almighty', apparently on the ruins of some ancient riparian city in Cambodia. Transcipts of radio transmissions from a USN riverboat onsite indicated possible shoggoth activity, judging from Kurtz's appearance. One of the few survivors of the operation, a Col. Kilgore of the Air Cav, unblinkingly comments:
"He was a complex guy, although he wasn't a deep one. Kurtz didn't surf, but I'd let him drink from my canteen anytime."
From: Steven Kaye
Dave Farnell wrote:
>Anyway, I've been doing a lot with Tcho-tchos lately (you know, hanging
out
>with them, drinking fermented gaur milk, practical jokes: "Hey,
SupahDave,
>want a hambahgah?" "Sure, OK...heyyyy, this ain't beef.
All right,
who is
>this?!")--no, I mean using them in games. Now, I've come across
2
main
>theories in the past: One, they are a tribe from southeast Asia
(although
>they seem to be anywhere an author wants them to be). Two,
they can
develop
>all over the world, as a natural side effect of worshipping
the GOO--do
it
>long enough, and your people turn into a Tcho-tcho tribe.
>So I just want to get some ideas of how people see the Tcho-tcho,
and how
>they use them in a game. One thing I have to fight hard against
is
letting
>them turn into a racist stereotype of Asians from 1940s
movies--it's
just so
>easy for it to slide into all that, and it's really glaring
as half
my
>players are Asian--it just stands out more than it would in Texas.
Oddly, I've been pulling stuff together from Mythos fiction on the Tcho-Tcho recently. I'll post the full essay to the list later, but my take is that there are a number of peoples falling under the name of "Tcho-Tcho" - the original population, based in Myanmar and Tibet, with smaller populations in the Andaman Isles, the Indochinese hills (esp. Northern Laos), and southern Malaysia. AT YOUR DOOR, of course, has 40,000 of them emigrating to the U.S. and Canada.
The Malaysian and to a lesser extent the Indochinese population are the ones that tend to get encountered most often (my rationalization for the fact that a people described as hairless in their debut, "The Lair of the Star-Spawn," always are depicted in Chaosium supplements as having bowl cuts and filed teeth. Tooth filing is an important religious ceremony in parts of Indonesia).
Also note that in Robert Price's "Dope War of the Black Tong" (aka, "Let's see how many Robert E. Howard references I can cram into a single story) and "The Strange Doom of Enos Harker," he has the Tcho-Tcho be essentially short bloodthirsty Tibetans, with a normal-human appearing priestly caste (hence the references to Bon-po, ro-langs, etc.), and everyobdy's favorite midgets being a specially-bred warrior caste, now degenerated after addiction to the Black Lotus.
In Lin Carter's section of "The Strange Doom of Enos Harker," he claims the Tcho-Tcho originally came from Sarkomand in the Dreamlands. Tcho-Tcho should be highly familiar with the Dreamlands (give them Dreaming skill de facto, plus whatever lore you want to add).
For some reason, sites with names similar to Tsang (Sung, Muongsing, etc.) are regarded as important to the Tcho-Tcho. Not seeing the Tcho-Tcho as being into Sikhism in a big way, I don't have an explanation for this currently.
I see the cannibalism of the Tcho-Tcho as a demonstration of their innate superiority over other races. In religious rituals (similar to the Anziques), flesh is prepared ritually to grant long life. Cruel Keepers should feel free to take advantage of the Consume Likeness spell, as well. Tcho-Tcho are not stupid.
Other things to remember - this supposedly primitive people have metallurgy of some sort (their "bright swords" from "Star-Spawn"), ship-building capabilities (ditto), and have managed to survive several thousand years minimum in South and Southeast Asia, hated by all their neighbors - an impressive feat in its own right.
Gods worshipped: Originally, Lloigor and Zhar. Unless someone had a heck of a lot of Bactine, I doubt this is likely any more. I'd make them worshippers of Ithaqua (who like the Tcho-Tcho, in some stories is said to come from Leng), the King in Yellow (as per "King of Shreds and Patches" in STRANGE AEONS), Nyarlathotep, Atlach-Nacha (mainly because Keith Herber said so - I can't think of a more useless god to worship, with the possible exception of Rhan-Tegtoh), and Shub-Niggurath (they're good at agriculture in T.E.D. Klein's BLACK MAN WITH A HORN, and "Star-Spawn" hints at their having sprung from seeds planted by the Old Ones).
Typical occupations outside Asia: fishing (there's a reference to an oblong swimmer near the ruined city of the Tcho-Tcho in Lovecraft's "The Horror in the Museum), agriculture, construction (they tend to live in mountains - fear of heights isn't exactly a problem, and they're very strong for their size - I'd give 'em a +3 minimum on Strength rolled).
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:55:04 +0100
From: Davide Mana
>Anyway, I've been doing a lot with Tcho-tchos lately
Hey, personal tastes are just that, right?
> Now, I've come across 2 main
>theories in the past: One, they
are a tribe from southeast Asia (although
>they seem to be anywhere
an author wants them to be). Two, they can develop
>all over the world,
as a natural side effect of worshipping the GOO--do it
>long enough,
and your people turn into a Tcho-tcho tribe.
Sorry, but the second looks to me a little preposterous.
You probably turn into something Tcho-tcho-like - inbred, nasty and GOO-worshipping, that is.
But turning into a proper Tcho-tcho...
Senator William Stanley: "Well, have you found my
daughter?"
Special Agent Kenneth Green: "Yes, sir,
but..."
Senator: <stern look of expectancy>
SA Green:
"You see, sir, after running away from home, apparently Linda joined a weird
little fringe cult out in Montana and..."
Senator:
<impatient>"And?"
SA Green: <embarassed>"... she apparently
turned into a sharp teethed, overweight woman of mongolian stock, sir."
>So I just want to get some ideas of how people see the Tcho-tcho,
and how
>they use them in a game. One thing I have to fight hard against
is letting
>them turn into a racist stereotype of Asians from 1940s
movies--it's just so
>easy for it to slide into all that, and it's
really glaring as half my
>players are Asian--it just stands out more
than it would in Texas.
Personal suggestion: go for the insect angle. Get a good popular enthomology book (something about termites should do the work) and start from there, building the Tcho-tcho culture around insect behaviour. My rationale generally is - no matter what, mammalians all do share certain common traits. If you want alien society, go for alien phisiology.
You usually get two different Tcho-tcho varieties in my games.
. Wild Tcho-tcho - found deep in the jungles of the Golden Triangle (or wherever the Keeper needs them), your typical nasty native cum cannibal/cultist. While a fringe minority does entertain relations with more civilized groups (and might just sport a Lacoste polo shirt for the fun of it), the hard core Tcho-tchos are a neolithic remnant hidden from civilization, a people of hunters-gatherers. Probably considered as the ultimate "good savages" by liberal-minded environmentalist and other assorted romathics.
If contacted by investigators, they are the epitome of the "winking native", with a twist. "Our secret ritual? Yes, we'll let in about our secret ritual."
[Old Game Remembered... That time the "friendly" Tcho-tcho tribe in the Chinese mountains killed and ate a panda in front of the players. Raw. Described really fast and really nasty, this is a certified show-stopper]
Tipically, investigators will notice the curious scarcity of women in the village (as I, too, subscribe to the one female breeder each 10+ male warriors theory); this is also known as the "Hey, where's all the women?" syndrome.
Once they start asking questions like that, it's downhill all the way.
. Acclimatized Tcho-tcho - found wherever the meat is tender and shadows are deep. Most major urban centres have a small Tcho-tcho community, often just a single unobstrusive family nucleus. They probably arrived mixed with the boat people (1970s), but the rationalization is up to the players (they'll dream up a few, anyway). Generally distrusted by other oriental emigrees (the Triads might have a constant death sentence out for the little jerks), a fact that forces them to keep a low profile.
[Future Game Idea: A Feng Shui game built around a Triad/Tcho-tcho turf war. No quarter given]
Where they are more numerous they are employed as enforcers/workers by non-Asian crime organizations or - very rarely - they set up their own. Drug running and prostitution are the two main lines. The drug they sell is probably mixed with some weird stuff - witness the "addict death epidemics" that sometimes sweep the streets. Tcho-tcho women selling their graces on the street might be willingly looking for impregnation - and you can imagine what they do with the cross-breed children (yes, you can). They generally cater for particular tastes and are certified HIV clean.
[note that this abundance of fertile females indicates a drastic breeding-pattern variation - possibly a sign of even more drastic differences if we compare this bunch to their cusins in the jungle]
A few cases of missing persons might have found their way on the table of the Tcho-tcho, but that's a wild story out in the streets (ever heard about urban legends?)
Both groups suffer a strong intrinsic territorial control: you need a wide area to support a small group of Tcho-tchos, given their tastes. On the other hand, they probably are not above enforcing forced breeding in time of need. And anything you can say about child soldier/cultists works, cubed, for Tcho-tchos.
All this is a brief summary - off the top of my head - of what my players discovered or came close to discovering in our rare Cthulhu Now games in the past years. I can go and dig up their notes for further stuff.
From: "David Farnell"
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:35:33 +0900
Dan Harms wrote:
>Then again, a couple of weeks ago in my linguistics class, I heard
what
>seems to be the latest theory: isolates such as Basque and Zuni
are
>not necessarily remnants of hideously old tongues, but creoles
made
up
>of several surrounding languages. It may be controversial; I couldn't
tell
>from the brief discussion.
Ah, "isolates," that was the word I was trying to remember! But, hey, if they're creoles, wouldn't that be obvious, as they'd be mostly (even exclusively) loan-words?
More back on track to DG: In Jared Diamond's _Guns, Germs, and Steel_, he shows that the Austronesians (Indonesians, Malaysians, Polynesians, and more) all come from the aboriginal Taiwan people, who still comprise 2% of Taiwan's population today. In the days before the Chinese moved in, these folks set out in boats and colonized much of Southeast Asia and pretty much every island in the Pacific, from the Philippines to New Zealand and Hawaii and Easter Island and even Madagascar. This started around 3000BC and ended about 1300AD.
So, all these folks, many of whom have figured strongly in Mythos history, come from a common root. So what's in Taiwan? Something that inserted a "Tcho-tcho" gene? Something that caused the greatest diaspora and colonization before the European Age of Exploration/Exploitation? Something that scared the hell out of them?
Oh, and they DIDN'T colonize Australia. Hmmm. (Actually, Diamond puts forth perfectly good reasons for that, but it's not Mythos enough.)
From: Graeme Price
Dave and Davide concocted the following:
>> Now, I've come across 2 main
>>theories in the past:
One, they are a tribe from southeast Asia
(although
>>they seem to be anywhere an author wants them to be).
Two, they
can develop
>>all over the world, as a natural side effect of
worshipping the
GOO--do it
>>long enough, and your people turn into a Tcho-tcho
tribe.
>Sorry, but the second looks to me a little preposterous.
>You
probably turn into something Tcho-tcho-like - inbred, nasty
and
>GOO-worshipping, that is.
>But turning into a proper
Tcho-tcho...
>SA Green: "You see, sir, after running away from home, apparentlyy
Linda
>joined a weird little fringe cult out in Montana
and..."
>SA Green: <embarassed>"... she apparently turned into
a sharp
teethed,
>overweight woman of mongolian stock, sir."
It can happen, you know: My friend's fiance suddenly exploded into a 400 lb blimp (pardon the expression) when they split up... course, she shed it all when she met the guy she ended up by marrying... but you never know.
Now, when you consider that Tcho-Tcho's are a Shub-Niggurath worshipping people, anything could happen. Metabolic or physiological changes due to ritual worship, consumption of unusual foodstuffs (can anyone say "Jennykin's"? good, I knew you were still with me), exposure to odd artefacts (after all, who says that the fallen meteorite isn't highly radioactive and has been leaching all sorts of mutagenic weirdness into the local streams). Just depends how you want to set it up, I guess.
>Personal suggestion: go for the insect angle. Get a good
popular
>enthomology book (something about termites should do the work)
and
start
>from there, building the Tcho-tcho culture around insect behaviour.
This is one way of looking at it. Perhaps another would be to model it on any of the matriachal dominated societies. Perhaps a reverse form of the Fore people of Papua New Guinea... who we have discussed at lenth previously regarding the Kuru/CJD aspects.
>My rationale generally is - no matter what, mammalians all do share
certain
>common traits. If you want alien society, go for alien phisiology.
Yes, but Alien physiology can take a lot of working out to get right (take the Shan discussion for example). Of course, it can be done (and done well), but there is something equally satisfying about weird cultures grounded in real life.
>You usually get two different Tcho-tcho varieties in my games.
> . Wild Tcho-tcho - found deep in the jungles of the Golden Triangle
(or
>wherever the Keeper needs them), your typical nasty native cum
cannibal/cultist.
This would be a good point to mention a web site I found a couple of months back...
http://www.head-hunter.com/gallery.html
which could provide some good photographic handouts for those so inclined.
>Tipically, investigators will notice the curious scarcity of women
in the
>village (as I, too, subscribe to the one female breeder each
10+ male
>warriors theory); this is also known as the "Hey, where's
all the
women?"
>syndrome.
Again, reminiscent of the Fore people.... of course, the reasoning behind that was a little different.
> . Acclimatized Tcho-tcho - found wherever the meat is tender and
shadows
>are deep. Most major urban centres have a small Tcho-tcho
community,
often
>just a single unobstrusive family nucleus.
>Where they
are more numerous they are employed as enforcers/workers
by
>non-Asian crime organizations or - very rarely - they set up their
own.
>Drug running and prostitution are the two main lines.
Also take away food... stir fried long pig with a sweet and sour sauce, anyone? INS agents will doubtless come into their own in these investigations (note to self: don't dis the INS... they are all lovely people [except the A**hole who stapled my I-94 US entry card through 4 pages of my passport on purpose _after_ I asked him not to...])
>They generally cater for particular tastes and are certified HIV clean.
Yes, but HIV may be the least of your worries in this case....
>[note that this abundance of fertile females indicates a
drastic
>breeding-pattern variation - possibly a sign of even more
drastic
>differences if we compare this bunch to their cusins in the
jungle]
Could just reflect a life span difference. After all, the strain of giving birth repeatedly (perhaps to multiple foetuses at a time) is bound to create metabolic havoc. In otherwords, perhaps the females just don't live as long as the males. I'm also put in mind of some of the pacific islanders who have unusual diets (and odd metabolic disorders). Diabetes is particularly common in (IIRC) Tonga... but this may be a life style thing, with a minor genetic predisposition.
>All this is a brief summary - off the top of my head - of what my
players
>discovered or came close to discovering in our rare Cthulhu
Now games
in
>the past years. I can go and dig up their notes for further
stuff.
>Comments more than welcome.
This looks like it should be one of those threads that will bring up all sorts of good science/mythos/anthropology cross overs. Everything that we have previously been into Re. Inbreeding and Deep Ones will probably apply in spades to Tcho-Tcho's. Anyway, I will have to go away and have thinks about some of the less obvious implications.
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:17:53 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man in Black
> Tcho-tcho women selling their graces on the street might be
willingly
> looking for impregnation - and you can imagine what they
do with the
> cross-breed children (yes, you can). They generally cater
for particular
> tastes and are certified HIV clean. [note that this
abundance of
> fertile females indicates a drastic breeding-pattern
variation -
> possibly a sign of even more drastic differences if we
compare this
> bunch to their cusins in the jungle]
FINALLY, a place for my hyper-sexual mutations that the Nephandi Progenitors from my MAGE game gengineered. Simply put, there are more than two human sexes and "certain conditions" can develop and enhance hyper-sexual physiology.
The Tcho-Tcho females are probably repeat breeders, or hyper-females capable of being impregnated even while currently pregnant. Strangely enough, there is a perverted incest sex story available via dejanews which features this topic in a positive light. I found out about it by accident of course.
The "overweight" nature of these Tcho-Tcho breeders could be explained by the presence of multiple wombs, ovaries and other sexual organs. The typical SHub-Niggrath milk enhancements aree also available: Phermomone control, multiple breasts and limbs, gigantism, tentacular genitalia, etc.
Drone males might be non-breeding hermaphrodites (or asexually reproducing hermaphrodites).
From: John Petherick
>> The Tcho-Tcho females are probably repeat breeders, or
hyper-females
>> capable of being impregnated even while currently
pregnant. Strangely
>> enough, there is a perverted incest sex story
available via dejanews
which
>> features this topic in a positive light. I found out about
it
by accident
>> of course.
>Or, how about a female reproductive system similar to that of spiders
(and
>maybe other arthropods as well), a system which allows for the
storing
of
>sperm from a male to be stored by the female for a period of time
(up to a
>few months, AFAIK) until such time as she feels like using
it. Sort
of a
>"have sex-don't get pregnant for six months" thing. Not to mention
fertile
>grounds for all sorts of wonderful sitcoms like "My 238 Dads."
=)
The extreme example of this practice are the social insects in Hymenoptera (bees, ants, etc.). After a fertile female completes pupation and emerges, it engages on a mating flight. Pheromones released by the virgin queen attract male drones from neighbouring colonies, which engage in a competitive mating flight. During the flight, the fittest drones mate with the queen. The queen stores the semen from her multiple male partners internally, and returns to her parent hive. The males drop to the ground exhausted, having made their contribution.
What happens after the queen returns depends on the status of her mother, and any siblings. If there is no other queen, the new queen takes over. There may be a fight for control of the hive, with the strongest killing the weaker ones. Or, the colony may split into two or more sub-colonies (swarming).
Semen is stored for the life of the queen, approximately 3 to 4 years.
In honeybees (domestic and wild), this is where it gets interesting:
-
the queen and all the workers are female, and diploid (product of a fertilized
ovum)
- a queen is produced by diet (royal jelly) during larval development. Production of a larger cell for pupation also is a factor.
- the male drones are haploid, (product of an unfertilized ovum)
- fertilization of the ovum is voluntary, and there are many factors (time of year, stress, condition of nearby colonies) that affect it. A controllable factor (by the beekeeper) is the size of the cell in the honeycomb. Large cells are required for drones, so beekeepers replace old brood comb (which has been rebuilt several times with gradually larger cells) with new comb. New comb is built on a foundation wax sheet which has a stamped pattern for cells of the appropriate size for worker larvae.
- control of the hive is through pheromone release. If the hive grows too large, or is stressed by overcrowding the queen cannot "control" the workers and they start producing new queens (since they produce the special food and pupation cell) and the colony swarms
- if the queen gets too old and weak, pheromone production decreases and queen rearing starts. A symptom of an old queen is an increased number of drones, because her sperm reservoir is becoming depleted
- if the queen dies, the workers will try to rear a new queen from a newly hatched larva
- if the queen dies and there are no fertilized eggs or larvae (perhaps during winter), an infertile worker may become fertile through diet and engage on a mating flight in spring
- there is only one function for drones, so they do nothing all summer. If they go on a mating flight, they die (win or lose). Come fall, one of the signs of coming cold weather is when the drones are killed off.
- the drones do live longer, and get free food and lodging all summer. Workers may live for 3 weeks during peak nectar flow
- queens normally live for 3 or 4 years. Once they weaken, they may be killed by their successor, killed by their subjects or (more commonly) killed by the beekeeper and replaced with a queen of known parentage and fertilization
Now, run with this ...
- Tcho-tcho breeder females store semen from multiple male partners.
- male partners are seduced during a brief period, perhaps before the breeder becomes bloated
- all of the other Tcho-tcho are neuter "workers" who labour to keep the queen properly fed with "special foods"
- repeated use of semen from the multiple male partners would make the Tcho-tcho community a web of half-siblings and full siblings. Appearances would be very similar, with perhaps repeating inherited defects
- if the queen gets old, the workers start rearing a replacement
- stress or perhaps an abundant supply of the "special food" would cause the rearing of new queens
- Tcho-tcho "colonies" may spread by two or more members posing as a family with an infant queen moving to a new community. They raise the infant queen, with the "special foods" it requires until it is sexually mature and a new community is born
This last raises the possibility, "What if the transformation to breeder is genetic?". A Tcho-tcho infant queen is orphaned through accident (or intentional action) and raised by normal society. Everything is fine until the girl reaches puberty and starts having really strange food cravings. A brief period of uncontrolled sexual activity provides the stored semen ... and then the Tcho-tcho's start coming.
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:50:04 -0500 (EST)
From: John Petherick
>Or, how about a female reproductive system similar to that of spiders
(and
>maybe other arthropods as well), a system which allows for the
storing
of
>sperm from a male to be stored by the female for a period of time
(up to a
>few months, AFAIK) until such time as she feels like using
it. Sort
of a
>"have sex-don't get pregnant for six months" thing. Not to mention
fertile
>grounds for all sorts of wonderful sitcoms like "My 238 Dads."
=)
Or, consider the anglerfish and other deep sea fishes. The females solve the problem of locating a mate by physically adsorbing him. The male forms, for all intents, a parasitic growth on the side of the female that occasionally sprays milt into the ocean.
This may explain why the Tcho-tcho breeder is so large and bloated.
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:13:38 +0100
From: Davide Mana
After entertaining us quite a while with ants and bees, John Petherick wrote
>- Tcho-tcho "colonies" may spread by two or more members posing as
a family
>with an infant queen moving to a new community. They raise
the infant
>queen, with the "special foods" it requires until it is
sexually mature and
>a new community is born
Environmental pressure might cause a change in breeding style (see my previous post on the subject for reference). It has been observed - with fire ants (Solenopsis invicta) - that the introduction of the creatures in a new, more selective environment, can alter the breeding pattern.
Fire ants, for instance, use in the United States a multiple-queen pattern of breeding that was never observed in their area of origin. While in South America each fire ant community is centered around one queen, and different communities compete for resources, in certain areas of North America Fire ant communities are networks sharing a few queens (cross-breeding, actually) _and_ the area resources. This makes the little bastards - among the most aggressive critters in the world - much more dangerous, efficient and resistant to external attacks.
The change in pattern has been postulated as an evolutionary response to indiscriminated pesticide attack - back in the '50s and '60s - on the original colonizing S. invicta.
[for more of the same, and tons of other stuff, see the excellent "Why Things Bite Back", Edward Tenner, 1996]
The Tcho-tcho application is clear.
In a modern environment, the original large community centered around a single female breeder might rearrange as a network of smaller communities, each with its breeder - this would make the community less visible, and more efficient in handling resources; to feed a tribal group, they have to raid a village and carry off a few individuals. Smaller local gangs can get off on the occasional runaway/homeless that nobody notices anyway.
This also means that the small Tcho-tcho enclave your team raided and cauterized last week was actually part of a larger community, and now all the Tcho-tchos of the region know about what you did and are on the look-out. Bad news.
>This last raises the possibility, "What if the transformation to breeder is genetic?".
[nasty scenario option snipped but secured away for future games]
And what if Tcho-tcho can alter their genetic makeup depending on conditions? What if, the queen having been killed by the investigators, one of the male Tcho-tchos simply turns into a female - maybe even self-impregnating - and the cycle starts again?
There are quite a few animals out there that work that way.
To be on the safe side - don't let even one of them escape the clean-up.
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:01:52 -0500
From: Keith Potter
Didn't the Lovecraft story about the Irish Detective in New York (was it "The Red Hook Horror"?) say that the Tcho-Tcho's come from Kurdistan?
That's a very Interesting part of the world anymore, with international military involvement, lots of Kurdish refugees coming to Europe and the US, and of course all the troubles this week in the wake of the Ocalan arrest.
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:26:14 EST
From: DHammann
I am reading a mass market trade paperback, OUT OF TIME AND SPACE. It is a collection of articles from FATE magazine on historical oddities and anomolies. One article from last year (1998) describes a tribe of dwarves , all under four feet tall discovered in China, who claimed their descendants come from outer space thousands of years ago.
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:38:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew D. Gable"
> Didn't the Lovecraft story about the Irish Detective in New York
(was it
> "The Red Hook Horror"?) say that the Tcho-Tcho's come from
Kurdistan?
Kurdistan=yes; Tcho-tcho=no.
The main villains of the piece, a rather nasty cult, did come from Kurdistan. But AFAIK, they were just a nasty cult and *not* Tcho-tchos. Although there could still, potentially, be a branch of the Tcho-tcho in Kurdistan (BTW, what did HPL mean by this? Was it actually a country, or is he referring to the Iraq/Iran/Turkey area inhabited by the Kurds?). All of which would make the Sons of al-Azrad (modern incarnation of Robert E. Howard's Yezmites), a Mideast terrorist organization I made up, much more interesting.
But while we're on the topic of Tcho-tcho use in HPL, what about the cult in "The Hound"? I can't remember if they were Tcho-tcho or just from Leng.
Which brings up another interesting topic: what about Leng? HPL presented several conflicting views of the Plateau: in the Dreamlands, in Antarctica, in China, etc. What's everyone think it is? I lean towards its not being a place proper, but a descriptive term: hence, Leng could be *anywhere*.
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:27:13 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Svend Andersen
Funnnily enough, I had to do a paper that heavily involved fire ants last year... :)
It is thought that there are several factors that maintain multi-queen nests. One large factor is the availability of new nesting sites; if new nests are, generally, successful, then single queen colonies predominate, whereas a high failure rate for new colonies tends to result in multi-queen nests.
Why? Well, that has to do with the differences between queens from multiple queen nests and from single-queen nests. Queens from polygyneous nests tend to have low fat reserves (so they tend to starve before making a viable colony), mate inside the nest, and often don't venture out for a mating flight; queens from single-queen nests are the other way. (This means that almost all the genetic flow is from multiple-queen to single queen nests, but that's another matter. :) Multiple-queen nests tend to spread out, and the colony grows in a way that might be described as 'vegetatively'; whereas the single-queen nests distribute much more like seeds...
What significance does this have for Tcho Tchos? Well, firstly, multi-queen hives will mainly be found in areas where, overall, new colonies would tend to die out (such as relatively isolated cities, islands without large populations outside the main centers, etc.). Such tribes would be significantly bigger than single-queen tribes, and would probably be distributed in a clumpy fashion. Communication will be good within the group, but they may hava little contact with other communities.
Single-queen hives will be much more common in the traditional setting - sparse but on the whole uniformly distributed food source, good chance of a new colony establishing itself, etc. These groups may have more contact with each other, and may exchange breeding stock...
Of course, whether or not you want the Queens to hate each other is another question. :) The image of two huge Tcho-tcho queens facing off against each other with traditional stone daggers seems appropriate... :)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:35:02 -0500
From: Graeme Price
>Now, run with this ...
>- Tcho-tcho breeder females store semen
from multiple male partners.
>- male partners are seduced during a
brief period, perhaps before the
>breeder becomes bloated
OK, a hypothesis like this needs a few little tweaks to be workable. The following could sound a little kinky, so please bear in mind I'm not really as sick as I may appear to be below. Also note that I'm working from long lost A-level biology here, so some of the numbers may be a little off... but everything is correct as a rough approximation.
First off, I would ditch the "semen storage" thing. Sperm remains viable (outside of liquid nitrogen that is) for only a relatively short time (a couple of days half life IIRC) even in it's natural environment (the testes). This is why the testes produce several million sperm per day. The rate of replenishment of sperm is quite unbeleivable. This means that either the Tcho-Tcho female has some sort of specialised storage organ in which all cellular processes can be suspended (I don't actually like this idea, buts that's just me), or that soemthing else is going on. The "something else" I'm considering is this: Multiple ovulations.
Normal fertile human females ovulate (release a new egg from the ovaries) about once per month. But, once they are about 13, human females have produced all the eggs they are ever going to, and these are stored within the ovaries until released one at a time. Now this means that the ovary is a _real_ organ which can keep haploid cells (eggs) alive for a very long time (30 or more years. Ovulating once a month: potentially 360 eggs or more). Don't need to do any tinkering here. Now, what you have to bear in mind that each male ejaculation releases several million sperm.... but only one egg. This is a form of biological overkill. Even assuming that 90% of sperm either get killed by the host defences (they are foreign to the female and thus regarded as something of an immunological threat), are defective in some way, or just die en route to the fallopian tubes, then the single egg will still have thousands of sperm competing to get inside and fertilise it. Now if multiple ovulation occurs, then there will be more than one egg present to become fertilised and carried to term (this is the biological basis of fraternal twins). Hence the frequency of multiple births would increase, thus raising the effectiveness of each mating, at least in regards to child production.
[ObDG: Tcho-Tcho run fertility clinic. Need I elaborate any further?]
It could get even more efficient, if you could build in a way of getting the sperm to the egg. Perhaps chemoattractants or sperm stimulatory molecules secreted into the female reproductive tract? This could mean that multiple eggs become fertilised actually within the ovaries (or perhaps a cyst like egg storage organ attached to one of the fallopian tubes - a kind of second womb).
Needless to say, all highly speculative. As far a having the... er, liasons occur before the "bloating", this would make good biological sense for both logistic and practical reasons. In this case, the female would already be pregnant and simply waiting to give birth (without medical assistance, the practical maximum for numbers of foetuses surviving would be 3 or 4 per birth: giving 3 or 4 kids per 9 months - assuming a normal gestation period). Alternatively, you could have the "worker male Tcho-Tcho's" find the bloated female attractive for cultural reasons (not unreasonable: in several cultures, large women represent a sign of affluence and survivability in times of hardship... wonder what they would make of Kate Moss et al?). Possibly you could tie this into a mechanism for preventing the inbreeding getting to bad - send out one of the lithe attractive young females to bring some new blood back into the tribe. Literally.
Now, you could (in theory) increase the number of births per egg by having a mechanism whereby the egg actually divides into 2 after fertilisation (identical twins), but with the constraints on live birth numbers (as above) this becomes redundant in the case of multiple ovulations.
>This last raises the possibility, "What if the transformation to breeder
is
>genetic?". A Tcho-tcho infant queen is orphaned through accident
(or
>intentional action) and raised by normal society. Everything
is fine until
>the girl reaches puberty and starts having really strange
food cravings. A
>brief period of uncontrolled sexual activity provides
the stored semen ...
>and then the Tcho-tcho's start coming.
This is the classic "cuckoo" scenario. This was sort of, and badly, dealt with in the movie "Species" (the only redeeming feature of which was Natasha Henstridge getting her kit off every 10 minutes...). Personally, this possibility is the one I would favour, and not too unreasonable. Note that there would probably be hormone imbalances and metabolic (also possibly psychiatric? Nymphomania??!) disorders associated with this scenario: several of these could be mistaken as symptoms for various cancers or other underlying condistions - all of which might be treated symptomatically and suppressed to a greater or lesser extent by western physicians. Could provide for some interesting scenario lead ins as well (adoptive parents report their sick daughter missing... and then the bodies start turning up).
Finally, on the "bloating" thing, this could be a Nyarlathotep connection. Perhaps one which warrants further investigation?
From: The Man in Black
Andrew D. Gable, I want YOU to be the new leader of the nWo B&W!
> All right, who let the MiB get a hold of The Cookbook? =)
Do You Smell what the MiB is cookin'?
From: Steven Kaye
>But while we're on the topic of Tcho-tcho use in HPL, what about the
cult
>in "The Hound"? I can't remember if they were Tcho-tcho or just
from Leng.
It's the corpse-eating cult of Leng.
>Which brings up another interesting topic: what about Leng? HPL
presented
>several conflicting views of the Plateau: in the Dreamlands,
in
>Antarctica, in China, etc. What's everyone think it is? I lean
towards its
>not being a place proper, but a descriptive term: hence,
Leng could be
>*anywhere*.
I tend to play up Leng as originally being in the Dreamlands. Various unpleasant visitors from it have led to the identification of Leng as being in other places.
Note: There is a legendary Tibetan hero, King Gesar of Ling. Lies sleeping, will awaken when his country needs him, you know the drill. Ling, IIRC, overlapped parts of Tibet, China, several other countries.
Dan, do you have that Frenchkowski article handy?
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:07:42 +0900
From: "David Farnell"
Y'all's Tcho-tcho ideas have really kicked ass, folks--big-time arigato!
There's so much I can't begin to reply individually to all the great posts, so just a few notes here--probably more later.
re: People turning into Tcho-tchos due to GOO worship: I see what you mean, Davide, but I meant over generations, not just a few weeks. Sorry, should have made it clearer. And in this idea of "what a Tcho-tcho is," I think the people who have put this forth (I think it was in a gaming mag or scenario) meant that the Tcho-tcho is merely a human (nearly any human) who is corrupted (genetically as well as mentally) by the GOO. Myself, I think it robs the Tcho-tcho of some uniqueness, so I really don't like it either. The various populations of degenerate pseudo-humans around the world ought to each have their own flavor, instead of "tcho-tchoism" being a sort of equivalent to radiation poisoning. So in a roundabout way, I agree with you.
re: Breeding: Excellent details added to my somewhat less-well-formed ideas! My model was more naked mole rats than termites, but they're pretty similar (and naked mole rats are pretty damned alien and freaky). Davide's "Where's the women" line--aaaaaagh! I wrote that into the story I'm working on just *1* day before receiving that message! Yes, we really are infecting each other's brains with this list! Now if I can just forget the image of a rhino-sized naked-mole-rat-looking Tcho-tcho woman running ponderously down the streets of Samson, spraying pheremones all over and being chased by hundreds of aroused-yet-horrified Californians... (at least it got the image of the leg-humping Hound of Tindalos out of my head).
After the beehive ideas, I'm thinking that there WILL be tcho-tcho women about--but they're all neuter-looking undeveloped females, non-breeders, who are used as slaves and objects of abuse by the male tcho-tchos. How's this?: They look like innocent, even cute, children (except for all the scars and marks of back-breaking labor, of course), but the only thing that keeps them from transforming into a Queen is the pheremones of the Queen herself--so if they are taken away from the tcho-tcho village / apartment block / whatever, they will soon monstrously transform. If there are others transforming too, then they will battle to the death until only one is left, and eat the losers. This makes every female a potential Queen, easing the spread of tcho-tchos around the world. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
re: Fire Ants: Excellent point, and yes, they're like that (multiple queens, really damn tough to take out a nest) in Texas. Hellish little bastards! So, city tcho-tchos must have modified their pheremones, because otherwise the Quens would always be trying to kill each other. maybe this is a real genetic mod, or maybe the males just prevent the pheremones from reaching neighboring Queens (by distance, washing the Queen down every day, stuff like that).
Right, got a train to catch. More later. You guys are the tops!
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:12:56 +0900
From: "David Farnell"
[some really useful info on fire ants and...]
> Of course, whether or not you want the Queens to hate each other
is
>another question. :) The image of two huge Tcho-tcho queens facing
off
>against each other with traditional stone daggers seems appropriate...
:)
Actually, I was imagining they'd be ramming into each other until one of them burst with a sickening POP.
All right, here we go: Tcho-tcho Queen stats!
STR 4d6+10 (avg 24)
CON 3d6+6 (avg. 16-17)
SIZ 4d6+10 (avg 24)
INT 2d6 (avg 7)
POW 3d6 (avg 10-11)
DEX 2d6 (avg 7)
HP avg 20-21
Dam Bonus avg +2d6
Weapons: Charge 60% dam 1d8+db
Trample 75% dam 2d8+db against downed foe
Bite 25% dam 1d4 (no bonus, but probable infection)
Smackdown 40% dam 1d6+db
Armor: 3pts fat and hide
Skills: Scent Danger 60%, Sneak 60% (moves surprisingly quietly unless charging), Bellow with Rage 60% (if not ready for it, make SAN roll or be frozen with fear for a moment)
Special Attack: Sex Pheromones, potency 3d6 vs. POW, resist means -50% skills in target, failure to resist means target rips off clothes and tries to mate with Queen (if Queen is not present, will try to mate with, in descending order, other female humans, male humans, animals, holes in walls, etc), affects all human males in 10m diameter of Queen (effects may also be caused by walking into Queen's room even if Queen isn't present, or by being sprayed with this stuff out of a mace canister)
This is for a Queen from a multi-Queen nest complex--for a real "wild Tcho-tcho" Queen, add 1d6 to STR and SIZ.
From: "David Farnell"
>It's the corpse-eating cult of Leng.
Which could mean ghoul or tcho-tcho influence--or both!
>Note: There is a legendary Tibetan hero, King Gesar of Ling. Lies
sleeping,
>will awaken when his country needs him, you know the drill.
Ling, IIRC,
>overlapped parts of Tibet, China, several other countries.
This is why I generally put it in Tibet and environs, with possibilities that it has connections to other parts of our world that violate normal perceptions of space/time. Yes, King Gesar--a little like a Tibetan Arthur. Tamed a lot of demons, ushered in the age of Buddhism, replacing the old Bo:n religion. In Jade Throne (Emerald Hammer, China Chapter), I'm planning on revealing some hints that he was a Mythos-worshipping cult leader, much like the Arthur of Golden Dawn.
>Dan, do you have that Frenchkowski article handy?
Hey, if it has to do with Tibet, let me in on it!
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:08:41 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man in Black
> And in this idea of "what a Tcho-tcho is," I think the people who
have
> put this forth (I think it was in a gaming mag or scenario)
meant that
> the Tcho-tcho is merely a human (nearly any human) who
is corrupted
> (genetically as well as mentally) by the GOO. Myself,
I think it robs
> the Tcho-tcho of some uniqueness, so I really don't
like it either. The
> various populations of degenerate pseudo-humans
around the world ought
> to each have their own flavor, instead of
"tcho-tchoism" being a sort of
> equivalent to radiation poisoning.
Yeah. You've got Deep One Hybrids, Dunwich Pollution (YOG-SOTHOTH, sorcery, Colouring, etc), Glaaki Necromancy, Ghouls, Shub-Niggurath sex-freaks and Tcho-Tcho. I believe the source of the Tcho-Tcho mutations are primarily interbreeding with Men from Leng, ties in nicely with Arthur Machen's "Great God Pan." Some Lliogor/Zhar, Shub-Niggurath and whatnot are lesser factors.
We could very easily have a Leng Tcho-Tcho (widespread), a Shub-Niggurath Tcho-Tcho (Southeast Asia), and a Lliogor/Zhar Tcho-Tcho (Pacific and Indian Islands) as well. Tibet would be the secret hideout for all three tribes' immortal leadership. A sort of unholy trinity.
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:13:44 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man in Black
> This is why I generally put it in Tibet and environs, with
possibilities
> that it has connections to other parts of our world
that violate normal
> perceptions of space/time. Yes, King Gesar--a
little like a Tibetan Arthur.
> Tamed a lot of demons, ushered in the
age of Buddhism, replacing the old
> Bo:n religion. In Jade Throne
(Emerald Hammer, China Chapter), I'm planning
> on revealing some hints
that he was a Mythos-worshipping cult leader, much
> like the Arthur
of Golden Dawn.
The standard Theory is that Leng is a horrible place in the Dreamlands that intrudes on Tibet, Antarctica and the Gobi Desert. It may well intrude wherever authors and keepers want it to as well :)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:24:56 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Svend Andersen
> re: Breeding: Excellent details added to my somewhat
less-well-formed
> ideas! My model was more naked mole rats than termites,
but they're
> pretty similar (and naked mole rats are pretty damned
alien and freaky)
Regarding that - yeah, naked mole rats are way cool, and an excellent model to draw from. Because of that, here's a real world detail to chew...
Naked mole rat colonies are very territorial, and quite vicious toward 'invaders' in their area. However, successful colonies sometimes produce larger mole rats, which have very different appearance and behaviour. Whereas the 'normal' mole rat (both the breeders and workers) don't like to stray from the tunnels, prefer to in-breed, and are actively hostile to any other mole rat from elsewhere, these 'roamer' mole rats have a tendency to roam (and are larger, in part, because of increased fat reserves), and prefer to mate with different groups; they also seem not to trigger the automatic hostility in other nests.
DG Hooks: The agents are travelling by train/bus/whatever, on which a 'roamer' Tcho-Tcho is travelling; s/he is likely to look a bit odd, but not enough to block them from public transport. :) Now, if it's somewhere appropriate, having the bus attacked would be appropriate; if not, just have a bunch of little guys surround the 'roamer' at a station and hustle them off... done right, the agents may think that they have the oppertunity to save an innocent bystander. ;)
Or, such a figure may be able to help coordinate a number of disseperate clans, by working around their automatic hostillity to outsiders. Such a figure would not necessarily be the mastermind, but rather merely a messanger...
Other analogies: farming Dark Young for Milk, as ants farm aphids? Or there's this nasty fungus that reprograms ants to climb to the top of leaves, and then consumes the ant; IIRC, this makes it more likely that the fungus will be eaten along with the grass by a ruminant, and the fruiting body grows from the cowpat.
Hmm, that last one could be quite cool all on it's own - how about the Fun-Guys (or Deep Ones, or whoever) putting out a pamphlet on how to Summon them, but without any Binding component... or just a fungal brain disease that, once it reached a certain level, made you commit suicide in a messy way, splattering as many bystanders as posible with infected blood. There's a scenario - send the investigators to have a look at a rash of people blowing themselves away with shotguns in a public places in a small town somewhere...
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:58:18 -0800
From: Christian Conkle
All this recent talk about Naked Mole Rats piqued my curiosity, so I did a Web search on Go.com for Mole Rats, not knowing anything about them previously.
...wow...
All I have to say is.. I don't know which is sicker or more disturbing. The rats themselves or the sheer amount of Naked Mole Rat FAN sites on the internet, including the live Mole-rat web-cam at the National Zoo! What's the deal with these disgusting creepy little rodents??? Man, every day the Internet finds something new to suprise and repulse me. God, I love the Internet!!
Editor's Note: more on naked molerats and other rodents can be found, ad nauseam, in the Delta Green Zoology Primer, vol 1.
